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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) reloading and accuracy (Read 11463 times)
P1
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Re: reloading and accuracy
Reply #15 - Oct 13th, 2017 at 6:33am
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Have you tried removing the magazine tube and fore end of the 336? Some NRA Cowboy Lever Action shooters will do that. I've done it and it does make a difference.
  
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Red Cent
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Re: reloading and accuracy
Reply #16 - Oct 13th, 2017 at 2:26pm
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The mag tube is removed. A short substitute that barely come through the forearm has been placed. A small ring of black RV caulk  holds forend to tube. The only influence would be the endcap screwed to the dove tail slot filler. The dove tail insert has been slightly reduced to alleviate any stress. The substitute tube has been radiused at the receiver end and RV caulk barely separates the tube from the receiver. 
I have fired the rifle without tube and fore end with a number of different loads. This was done with the tip of the barrel on the rest and, then, with the front of the receiver on the rest. 
The trigger is a safe 1.5#s. A few of the local top shooters will attest to that fact.
Since buying his product, I have discussed the situation with  a national and world champion BP shooter. He loaned me a personal reamer that reduced the leade from a 3* per side to 1.5*. This reduced the groups down to the present 2" average.
I also loaded some rounds with Desperado bullets. They claim the lube works for BP also. These loads were either Ol Eynsford or Swiss FFG. From factory crimp to letting the bolt seat the bullet with no crimp. And I used a cereal box wad with around .125 compression on both powders. 
One thing I am sure is going some of your minds. I can get a surprise break on a trigger, from the bench, with a 22lr to my 7MM Magnums. Recoil hurts sometime but I have not developed a flinch. And, no, I don't want to try your 45-120  Shocked
As I said, I am seriously looking at breech seating the Marlin.

« Last Edit: Oct 13th, 2017 at 2:48pm by Red Cent »  

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P1
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Re: reloading and accuracy
Reply #17 - Oct 13th, 2017 at 8:50pm
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Well, it sounds like you have covered the bases. Unfortunately it is beginning to sound like you have a 2" shooter Angry
  
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Schuetzenmiester
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Re: reloading and accuracy
Reply #18 - Oct 13th, 2017 at 9:07pm
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What do you expect from a lever action?
  

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P1
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Re: reloading and accuracy
Reply #19 - Oct 13th, 2017 at 9:23pm
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How about the head space?  The taper on the bolt locking lug may need some attention.
  
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marlinguy
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Re: reloading and accuracy
Reply #20 - Oct 15th, 2017 at 11:08am
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P1 wrote on Oct 12th, 2017 at 4:32pm:
I would like to hear, and I believe that it is Red Cent's question, the why behind doing all testing over 100 yds. when it throws in many more veriables.  I shoot in NRA Palma matches and developed a competitive load at 100 for it.  Cast bullets are certainly different but I think it is even more important to cut down on outside influences, and you can develop a load quicker and with more confidence if the initial work is done at 100.


Obviously nobody would move out farther if results at 100 yds. aren't good enough. If my load was giving me large groups at 100 yds., I'd have no reason to complicate things by moving out farther until my groups are tighter. But I see no reason to stay at a closer distance once groups are good, if my plan for the gun/load is to shoot a farther distance.
Things can certainly change a fair amount between 100 yds. and 300 yds., so if 300 yds. was my goal, that's where I want to be as soon as possible.
  

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marlinguy
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Re: reloading and accuracy
Reply #21 - Oct 15th, 2017 at 11:12am
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Schuetzenmiester wrote on Oct 13th, 2017 at 9:07pm:
What do you expect from a lever action?


I'd expect a lot from a lever action, but that doesn't mean every one of them will give me what I'd like to get! I've had lever action Marlins that will give great long range results, with consistent hits. But others that seem to have all the same attributes, that wouldn't give the same groups. 
I've seen guys shooting them long range at 650 yds. or more offhand, and getting consistent hits on the dingers. And in calibers from .32-20 to .45-70! It's a joy to watch somebody who can shoot that well offhand!
  

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svartkruttgris#369
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Re: reloading and accuracy
Reply #22 - Oct 18th, 2017 at 6:58pm
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Normally, I test all my loads at 100yds/M and that is normally good indication of group size at up to 200M, often much further. Always worked well for hunting loads for 200M or less. 

However, a few years ago I shot a new 300gr cast bullet at 100 yds and got great groups, as good as with any cast bullet used by me. Took that load to BPCR match and did not even hit half the 300M pigs, whereas my previous 300/385M loads knocked over 8-10 pigs. Did a quick Google search that evening and found that, yep, other shooters loading that same bullet, nitro and BP, got great groups at 100M, sorta OK at 200M and bad at 300M.  After that I stuck to cast bullets, in that rifle, that have excellent rep for small groups out to 500M.
  
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JLouis
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Re: reloading and accuracy
Reply #23 - Oct 18th, 2017 at 8:20pm
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Shooting at 100yds. is always a good place to start just in order to find out if you can actualy develop a good load that shoots. Based on my own experiance when going out to 200yd. one has to develop yet another load that also shoots good at that range. Typically it has only required a slight increase in the current working 100yd. powder charge with everything else remaining the same. I have no expertise in going beyond 200yds. so I cannot honestly make a comment in regards to doing so but there plenty of those here who do have that personal expertise such as Marlinguy and SSShooter being another. 

JLouis
  

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MartiniBelgian
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Re: reloading and accuracy
Reply #24 - Oct 22nd, 2017 at 11:06am
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If you don't have a ready access to longer rranges and want to develop a decent load, the best way is to develop an accurate 100m/yds load that is relatively powerfulwith a heavby-for calibre bullet - it usually will perform pretty well at the longer ranges.  Slower, lighter bullet loads often fail miserably, which should come as no surprise.
That way I developed  a 45-70 load for 1,000 yds use which I took to the 2006 BP world championships in SA.  And yes, it did perform quite well. The load of 80 grains of 1 1/2 Fg swiss behind a 520gr bullet did its thing, and was also beautifully accurate at 100., the only distancer I was able to test it.
  
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P1
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Re: reloading and accuracy
Reply #25 - Oct 23rd, 2017 at 6:37am
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Another thing that makes a difference the longer the range is loading technique.  Like weighing powder charges, neck tension, case length etc. When I started shooting NRA long range in the Palma class, that is a .308 Win with a 155 gr. VLD bullet, all the stuff that makes you feel good at shorter distances makes a big difference. Probably velocity variations at long range affect dispersion the most so anything affecting that should be as precise as possible.
  
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Red Cent
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Re: reloading and accuracy
Reply #26 - Oct 24th, 2017 at 9:36pm
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P1, I have not examined the headspace.
  

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Re: reloading and accuracy
Reply #27 - Oct 25th, 2017 at 1:21am
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Red Cent  take close look at the muzzel of your rifle with a magnifieing glass or a jewelers loup under a good light source.  It sounds that you might have a buggered up crown or a bad or worn  lands at the muzzle from cleaning from the front.
Hth  ld1
  
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Red Cent
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Re: reloading and accuracy
Reply #28 - Oct 25th, 2017 at 9:36pm
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Do not know how the first owner cleaned it. I have always cleaned it with a graphite rod from chamber end.
I did the .30 cent home re-crown with a ball bearing, some buffing rouge, and the palm of my hand. Didn't see any burrs before or after. Did the scientific test with a Q tip. Nothing pulled off the Q tip. 
Ever see a breech seater for a lever gun?
  

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P1
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Re: reloading and accuracy
Reply #29 - Oct 26th, 2017 at 10:28am
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I did have good luck correcting the head space in my 336. I put scotch tape on the head until I felt it contact the bolt face and measured the total length. Then build up the angled bolt lug face with weld and recut it. It will push the bolt in a little further. Worked for me.
  
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