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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) bullet casting problems need help! (Read 9257 times)
Joe_S
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bullet casting problems need help!
Jun 21st, 2017 at 7:39pm
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This is a continuation of my previous post regarding zinc contaminated lead. I disposed of the contaminated lead and made a new batch consisting of lead pipe, some dental x-ray lead foil and tin , (30-1). I also thoroughly cleaned the ladle and fluxed it considerably. 
I continue to have problems. I am using an aluminum double cavity 38-55 mold and getting frosted and rounded unfilled edges on the bullet bands. I have tried faster and slower lead delivery, a bigger ladle, a longer hold on the ladle, higher and lower lead temps (750-950 degreed) and nothing works. Any ideas?
Thanks!
Joe S
  
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SteveC
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Re: bullet casting problems need help!
Reply #1 - Jun 21st, 2017 at 7:50pm
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Hey Joe, 
  The only thing I can think of is to buy some certified mix from a reputable dealer (Buffalo Arms, Missouri Bullet Co) and try again. If you start with unknown or not-quite-sure-what's-in-it alloy, you can't be sure what the problem is. Frosted is usually too hot and unfilled edges is too cold or not enough tin. Good luck and keep trying.
                         Steve
  
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Deadeye Bly
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Re: bullet casting problems need help!
Reply #2 - Jun 21st, 2017 at 8:45pm
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You are too hot. Turn the pot off and continue casting. When you get good bullets you will know at what temperature to operate. Then cast at that temperature.
  
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Schuetzenmiester
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Re: bullet casting problems need help!
Reply #3 - Jun 21st, 2017 at 8:48pm
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You may not have cleaned your mold, dipper and pot well enough.

I would wire  brush everything using a drill motor.  You can get a small ball type brush that should fit in your dipper.  Use a drill bit on the spout. 

Been over 30 years, but I think the last step before I got good bullets was boiling everything in water.  I don't remember if I used any soap, vinegar or bleach.

After zinc contamination, I always test if there is any possibility.  Don't want that again! 


  

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Re: bullet casting problems need help!
Reply #4 - Jun 22nd, 2017 at 7:10am
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I agree with SM. Cleanup after contamination is very important. You must be thorough. I had zinc contaminated lead and I did not clean up well enough after I dumped that first batch. I thought that a little bit of the zinc infested alloy would do no harm. I was wrong. No matter how small the amount of zinc the bullets will frost and be misshapen and the sprues will break off rather then get sheared off. I never used scrap lead again after that. I found that it was poor economy having to throw away basically 40 pounds of alloy because of the unintentional zinc contamination. (My contamination was from some scrap lead from a leaded glass window.)
Life is so much easier when starting out with known alloy and not needing to do the guessing and cleaning always required when using scrap. Just my opinion from my experience.
  
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40_Rod
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Re: bullet casting problems need help!
Reply #5 - Jun 22nd, 2017 at 9:05am
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You are casting too hot. Turn down your pot. An aluminum mold will always want to cast cooler than an iron one.

40 Rod
  
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Schuetzenmiester
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Re: bullet casting problems need help!
Reply #6 - Jun 22nd, 2017 at 9:15am
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My contamination was from those stick on wheel weights when they first started using them.  They had zinc for some reason.  The clip ons did not.
  

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Re: bullet casting problems need help!
Reply #7 - Jun 22nd, 2017 at 11:01am
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Joe_S wrote on Jun 21st, 2017 at 7:39pm:

...
I am using an aluminum double cavity 38-55 mold 

and getting frosted 

and rounded unfilled edges on the bullet bands.

I have tried faster and slower lead delivery, 

a bigger ladle, a longer hold on the ladle, 

higher and lower lead temps (750-950 degreed)

Thanks!
Joe S


Hmmm.  Do other moulds work?
  

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oneatatime
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Re: bullet casting problems need help!
Reply #8 - Jun 22nd, 2017 at 11:22am
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I preheat my aluminum molds on an electric hotplate at Medium while my 1 to 20 lead heats to 710-720. I use a Lyman ladle and hold it on the mold for a count of 3. I put the mold down and pick up a second one which I empty and refill before returning to the first. I cast with 2 molds in rotation so the sprues are solid and the molds do not get overheated. The bullets come out perfect.
  
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noylj
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Re: bullet casting problems need help!
Reply #9 - Jun 22nd, 2017 at 4:26pm
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FROSTED bullets with an aluminum mold? I don't know if there could be clearer sign of "too hot."
oneatatime is correct for steel/brass molds, but aluminum just doesn't hold the heat that well and you need to balance speed to keep the mold hot and slowing down to be sure sprue is really ready to be cut. This is why I so often have to dip a corner in the melt.
I didn't think you could get an aluminum mold that hot--I always fought having to cast real fast to keep it hot. I often have to dip a corner of the mold in the melt to get it hot between castings, as my molds seem to chill very fast.

You may still have some zinc contamination and that would call for a complete cleaning of everything, I would expect. 
You may simply need to add 1% tin to improve flow.
All I know about zinc is that when I started casting around 1975, the books all WARNED to NEVER use any lead that even MIGHT have zinc in it.
  
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JLouis
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Re: bullet casting problems need help!
Reply #10 - Jun 22nd, 2017 at 5:26pm
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I feel for you being on the path of total frustration and often times it just does not pay to try and save money by using what you have. I would also encourage you to try buying your pre-alloyed lead and tin from RotoMetals. Not only do they cover the freight beyond a 99.00 dollar purchase. They also support our sport of Schuetzen and just recently for our May ISSA Regional event they not only freely donated 30lbs. of alloy they also sent several hats and t-shirts for our post match prize drawing. 

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Joe_S
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Re: bullet casting problems need help!
Reply #11 - Jun 22nd, 2017 at 5:52pm
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Thanks everyone for your help!
I have been using custom alum molds for about 30 years. Usually pre-heat by dipping in lead before I start casting, and have cast tens of thousands of really good if not perfect bullets, so this is really frustrating. 
I usually cast with two double cavity molds. In order to reduce the variables, for the last three nights I have used only one mold. Last night, after wire brushing the ladle inside and out, and cleaning the mold with isopropyl alcohol, and not getting good results, I switched to a pot with 20/1 alloy and still could not get good bullets. The problem is consistently occurring at the same spot, so now I suspect something wrong with that part of the mold. Any ideas?
I have a new pot, sixty pounds of 30/1 alloy from Rotometals and a brand new mold on order.  I am selling all my questionable lead to a scrap dealer this weekend. Will keep the lead pipe and dental x-ray lead foil because I believe it is pure. The lead sheathing and roof flashing will be sold. Will keep the Wheel Weights for .30 cal. bullets, and be extra careful about sorting the wheel weights, but the .30 cal bullets are cast from a separate pot, and although I have had zinc in the lead before, never have I had this much trouble with it. 

If that doesn't work I will have to find a length of rope. I am out of ideas. 
Joe S
  
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oneatatime
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Re: bullet casting problems need help!
Reply #12 - Jun 22nd, 2017 at 6:03pm
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I was referring to my use of an aluminum mold. As a matter of fact after writing the first post I fired up my pot outside (gas pot) and cast for 55 minutes with a Lee (aluminum) dual cavity 44-40 mold (210 grains) and a Lyman (iron) dual cavity 311316 mold. The yield was 288 bullets (144 from each). Preheating both molds on a hotplate the first bullets from each were good to go and maintaining an even pace both molds stayed at desirable temps. Please excuse the quality of the photo.
  
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Re: bullet casting problems need help!
Reply #13 - Jun 22nd, 2017 at 9:33pm
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how do you determine if you have zinc in your mix?  i have some soft ingots which look almost color cased.
the mix i use most is plumbers lead and tin ???
  

ah heck  AA#9,4227,300MP, as long as it goes bang
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Joe_S
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Re: bullet casting problems need help!
Reply #14 - Jun 22nd, 2017 at 10:36pm
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Many years ago I encountered a situation where a metallic bluish color appeared in the melt and I could not get rid of it and could not make good bullets with it. I was using wheel weights at the time.
Earlier this year, I put an ingot in the melt and got some of that same metallic bluish color in the melt and could not believe it was zinc because I was confident the ingots were pure lead. However, since then I have not been able to get good bullets, even though I have discarded the entire pot of lead (30lbs) , and tried to start over. 
I melted down hundreds if not thousands of pounds of lead pipe over the years and made ingots, mainly to reduce the storage space. I marked the lead pipe ingots "PB" for lead. I also melted down several hundred pounds of Wheel weights and marked them "WW". It is possible that a contaminated Wheel weight ingot got in the "pure lead" pile and got thrown in the pot.  I have tried to discard any zinc wheel weight but its easy to miss one. I use WW exclusively for .308, 30-06 and 8mm bullets in a smaller pot, so if I get some contamination, I am only out about 20 lbs of lead instead of 30. I use the 30 lb pot exclusively for Schuetzen bullets. 
I believe its zinc because I am not aware of any other reason I cannot get good bullets. I believe others have reported this bluish color that is associated with bad alloy. I have not had it tested.
Joe S
  
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