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RollinRollinRawhide
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Remington Rolling block caliber conversion
Jan 24th, 2017 at 6:04pm
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With the Rolling block chambered in cartridges such as 8mm level and 7x57 Mauser, what is the maximum chamber pressure the action can handle? I have seen sources say the 8mm Lebel has anywhere from 46,000-51,000 psi, and I have seen sources say the 7x57 has 42,000-46,000 psi.  Considering the bolt thrust goes down with smaller case head sizes would it be unreasonable to convert a Remington rolling block to a 5.56 or 6.5 Grendel? By my rough calculations the 7x57 has more bolt thrust at 42,000 psi than a 5.56 at 55,000 psi. If headspace and dimensions are all correct could a rolling block with modern materials handle a smaller, yet higher pressure round?
  
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Zack T
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Re: Remington Rolling block caliber conversion
Reply #1 - Jan 24th, 2017 at 9:27pm
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These questions are really frequent on here. As someone in a highly litigious field I always wince. The easy answer is no dont do it. The next answer usually goes "with all the other action designs why etc etc etc." i think i am gonna stick to the "no dont do it" camp. If someone was capable of doing the modeing, design and fabrication of a modern steel rolling block they are capble of making a determination of design shortcomings and risk assessment. Failing that-no dont do it. If you asked remington their thoughts on converting one if their recent rolling block rifles to 6.5 Grendal they will also say-no dont do it.
  
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ssdave
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Re: Remington Rolling block caliber conversion
Reply #2 - Jan 24th, 2017 at 10:45pm
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I've answered this question (and been beat up over it) so many times I'm sick of it, and I almost just passed it over.  But, the answer is, as Zack said, NO.   

The Rolling block action doesn't handle gas leaks very well.  It was designed for pressures in the 30,000 psi range.   

Find a suitable action if you want a modern, high pressure cartridge.  If you just want to build a rolling block, build it in a suitable, low pressure round.
  
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SchwarzStock
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Re: Remington Rolling block caliber conversion
Reply #3 - Jan 25th, 2017 at 5:41pm
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RollinRollinRawhide wrote on Jan 24th, 2017 at 6:04pm:
With the Rolling block chambered in cartridges such as 8mm level and 7x57 Mauser, what is the maximum chamber pressure the action can handle? I have seen sources say the 8mm Lebel has anywhere from 46,000-51,000 psi, and I have seen sources say the 7x57 has 42,000-46,000 psi.  Considering the bolt thrust goes down with smaller case head sizes would it be unreasonable to convert a Remington rolling block to a 5.56 or 6.5 Grendel? By my rough calculations the 7x57 has more bolt thrust at 42,000 psi than a 5.56 at 55,000 psi. If headspace and dimensions are all correct could a rolling block with modern materials handle a smaller, yet higher pressure round? 


reminds me of a conversation I had with a long known friend when he asked should he marry a girl he had been seeing for a little over a week. My response "Why?' His reply "Why not?". In this case there are lots of "Why nots". The worst outcome he faced was a divorce which never happened because she was run over a killed by a firetruck but that is another story. 

Got a lot more to lose overloading a roller.

ss
  

If your rifle is not in 7.62 and you can't hit what you are aiming at with de-linked machinegun ammo you are a pretender.
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KWK
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Re: Remington Rolling block caliber conversion
Reply #4 - Jan 25th, 2017 at 9:53pm
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RollinRollinRawhide wrote on Jan 24th, 2017 at 6:04pm:
With the Rolling block chambered in cartridges such as 8mm level and 7x57 Mauser, what is the maximum chamber pressure the action can handle?

There is some debate as to whether the 7mm rolling blocks were actually what we today call the 7x57. There are small differences in the case dimensions, as I recall, and I think Remington supplied the ammo for them, so who knows the true pressure.

As for the Lebel, I recall it was issued to troops well behind the lines who were not expected to fire many rounds ever with it. Are you sure what was the service life? Also, for which generation of the Lebel are your pressure figures? The last ones were extra hot for use in certain machine guns.

My rolling block is of modern steel, in .30-40. I'll never fire factory ammo in it, and my reloads are in the very low 30s only.
  

Karl
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oldman46
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Re: Remington Rolling block caliber conversion
Reply #5 - Jan 25th, 2017 at 11:02pm
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Not taking to task the original poster and I'm hoping he does not take it that way. But realize the design is like 140 years old and designed for black powder cartridges. Now having said that they did make the #5 smokeless action for cartridges like the 7x57, 8mm lebel and others. They may have changed the heat treatment or steel that they used at the time but it is still a 140 year old design. Frank 
  
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ten-mile
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Re: Remington Rolling block caliber conversion
Reply #6 - Jan 26th, 2017 at 7:43am
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In about 1966 I read an article in Gunsport magazine about a 45-70 built on a 7x57 rolling block and just had to have one.  I found an excellent action at the time for $20 at a gun show. I was interested in the 45-70 as a powerful deer rifle so of course wanted to know how far I could go before I killed myself.  I wrote to P.O. Ackley who replied that the practical pressure limit was when a fired case turned 180 degrees would still chamber.  He went on to state that when the action failed it cracked at the pins.  You can find pictures of some spectacular failures like this on the Internet and at least one was fatal.  There is a lot of "give" in a roller and the case will bend some on firing.  I used QuickLoad to see what kind of pressures my loads developed and none exceeded 33k PSI (piezo).  I would not shoot these in my old age, but youth is invincible.  A few years later while in grad school I saw a RB at the LGS chambered in 22-250 for $50.  I saw it as another 45-70 but bought a box of factory 22-250s anyway to see how it would shoot.  Remember, youth is invincible.  The case head bent severely and the case ruptured ahead of the web.  I did get a very nice one shot group.
Today I have several rollers.  I have a 45-70 on a smokeless action and it will never see the 33k loads of the old days.  I shoot smokeless in all of my originals, even my #2 in 38W, but I would never consider a high pressure load as safe in any roller, modern steel or not.
  
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marlinguy
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Re: Remington Rolling block caliber conversion
Reply #7 - Jan 26th, 2017 at 10:21am
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I've seen instances like ten mile described with cases that literally bend under firing from Rolling Block actions that had begun to shoot loose. Often in these instances you can pull the fired case out, and it wont allow the case to be chambered again unless it's indexed exactly as it came out. When that happens the case can even be full length sized, and still wont chamber without being indexed. The bend happens just above the rim, and is usually a sign of worn out pins, or a breech block with too much play.
  

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jon_norstog
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Re: Remington Rolling block caliber conversion
Reply #8 - Feb 9th, 2017 at 3:07pm
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I would add that even a perfect action will have enough stretch in it that your cases will only last a few loadings at smokeless pressures. 

If you want to chamber an old BP rifle for a hot smokeless round, look for a falling block design.  My 2 cents.

jn
  
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GeorgeC
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Re: Remington Rolling block caliber conversion
Reply #9 - Feb 15th, 2017 at 9:38pm
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Are the cowboy action ammo brands such as Ultramax, HMS, Blackhills, etc. in .38-55 and .44-40 safe to shoot in rolling blocks with modern steel barrels?  I know the most thrust is rearward.  Since I only shoot BP and cast bullets in my rollers this is pretty much just a question of interest.
  

Never mind the mule. Just load the wagon.
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