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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) E A Leopold - Dr Baker - A O Niedner - Dr F W Mann (Read 27113 times)
JLouis
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Re: E A Leopold - Dr Baker - A O Niedner - Dr F W Mann
Reply #30 - Jan 8th, 2017 at 7:23pm
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The shooting stick referred to as the woodchuck rest was introduced by Dr. H.A. Baker and constantly used by FW Mann in the field. The hollow iron tube, with its sharp point, carries within it the swabbing, stick, can be easily entered into the ground, while the sliding rest is quickly moved to any desired height and fastened by set screw. In tramping the the fields or woods, it makes a good walking stick by sliding rest to the top. It can be used in place of tripod for small camera, and is no mean weapon at close quarters, stiff and strong but quite light in weight. Dr. Baker recommends it for opening a generous space between the barbed wires of an obstructing fence; by setting its sharp point into one wire, catching the other upon sliding rest, moving it up and carrying wire along, then fastening by set screw, space for passing through without catching clothing is quickly afforded. 

Its proposed use for chuck hunting was surely well thought out and there is a picture showing it being used in the prone position barrel being rested about ten inches back of muzzle.

Wow that was allot of typing on my phone and I hope everyone truly enjoys reading it and the multiple use ingenuity if its design.

JLouis
  

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Redsetter
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Re: E A Leopold - Dr Baker - A O Niedner - Dr F W Mann
Reply #31 - Jan 8th, 2017 at 8:38pm
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JLouis wrote on Jan 8th, 2017 at 6:52pm:
The bottom of his shooting jacket is between the Bell of the scope and the barrel and thus it is actually hidden behind it. It is also lacking the parallax adjustment to be a Sidle it being the same or similar to the Fecker's per-say being located mid tube.

JLouis


Not what I see--which is the coat behind the objective end, which has no bell, just a straight tube.  Isn't that a shadow of that end of the scope on the coat?   

The only Sidels I've see had the same simple, fast, and foolproof, sliding objective cell used by Stevens and others for focusing. Only Fecker and Hubaleck scopes focused with the inverter cell that I've seen.  But Sidel definitely made custom scopes not in his catalog, so anything is possible.  Ned Roberts referred to two 16X scopes he made for both Niedner & Mann in 1912 which had probably the largest objectives used up to that time--1-3/4".  Maybe those focused with the inverter, because a sliding objective that large was impractical, but I don't see how that scope could be the same one shown in this photo.
  
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Redsetter
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Re: E A Leopold - Dr Baker - A O Niedner - Dr F W Mann
Reply #32 - Jan 8th, 2017 at 8:47pm
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JLouis wrote on Jan 8th, 2017 at 7:23pm:
Dr. Baker recommends it for opening a generous space between the barbed wires of an obstructing fence; by setting its sharp point into one wire, catching the other upon sliding rest, moving it up and carrying wire along, then fastening by set screw, space for passing through without catching clothing is quickly afforded... JLouis


Where I grew up, barbed wire strung around every piece of ground larger than a tennis court, that would have been a Godsend, if it worked.  But I can't believe the sharp point wouldn't slide off the wire once tension was applied.


  
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JLouis
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Re: E A Leopold - Dr Baker - A O Niedner - Dr F W Mann
Reply #33 - Jan 8th, 2017 at 9:19pm
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The only picture of the Sidle I have found is a 20X and the same as a Fecker in regards to the parallax adj.
Shoot me an e-mail and I will pass on a picture of it, in regards to the scope in the picture what appears to be the bell is a shadow of the wrinkle in his coat and appears to be miss-leading and if you can expand clearly you will notice it is actually behind the tail of his coat. Sidle made a 16X for both FW Mann and AO Niedner in 1912 both having 13/4 objective inside diameter bells. I did not go back to look if they were pictured in the picture of all four gentleman including them.

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Redsetter
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Re: E A Leopold - Dr Baker - A O Niedner - Dr F W Mann
Reply #34 - Jan 8th, 2017 at 9:39pm
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JLouis wrote on Jan 8th, 2017 at 9:19pm:
The only picture of the Sidle I have found is a 20X and the same as a Fecker in regards to the parallax adj.
Shoot me an e-mail and I will pass on a picture of it, in regards to the scope in the picture what appears to be the bell is a shadow of the wrinkle in his coat and appears to be miss-leading and if you can expand clearly you will notice it is actually behind the tail of his coat.
johnnymlouis@gmail.com


I even turned my computer screen to a vertical position to see the photo in its proper orientation, but what I STILL see is the wrinkle formed by his fingers, with the scope also in the same wrinkle, which means the coat is behind the scope.  As I said, there's a shadow of the scope ON the coat, which couldn't be there if the scope was hidden behind the coat.  If that's the case, the scope is a straight tube as were the vast majority of them at this time.  What do others see? 

Will send email as I'd certainly like to see the scope you described.
  
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Bill Lawrence
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Re: E A Leopold - Dr Baker - A O Niedner - Dr F W Mann
Reply #35 - Jan 8th, 2017 at 11:17pm
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For all that I respect Mr. Louis and have learned from him, I agree with Redsetter on this one.  That is, the front of the scope ends about 1-1/2" up from the bottom edge of the coat and the back edge of the front mount is even with that edge.

Can anything be gleaned from what are to me a Malcomish rear scope mount and the assumed double-serrated focusing ring?

Bill Lawrence
  
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Redsetter
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Re: E A Leopold - Dr Baker - A O Niedner - Dr F W Mann
Reply #36 - Jan 9th, 2017 at 12:45am
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Bill Lawrence wrote on Jan 8th, 2017 at 11:17pm:

Can anything be gleaned from what are to me a Malcomish rear scope mount and the assumed double-serrated focusing ring?

Bill Lawrence


Sorry, nothing at all Malcomish about that rear mount--it's a sliding mount, as Sidel introduced, but Stevens made popular.

The assumption of any "double-serrated focusing ring" is without foundation, as I think  Mr. Louis would probably now agree, based on closer examination of the photo in question, from Ray Smith's Pope book.


  
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Re: E A Leopold - Dr Baker - A O Niedner - Dr F W Mann
Reply #37 - Jan 9th, 2017 at 7:38pm
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Been in some off line conversations with Redsetter all very interesting and I'am currently doing some additional reserch and I have not abanded this conversation.
  

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Re: E A Leopold - Dr Baker - A O Niedner - Dr F W Mann
Reply #38 - Jan 9th, 2017 at 11:38pm
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My apologies over what some in this forum call a "brain fart".  The "Malcomish" mount I was referring to is not the front but the rear, the one nearest the action.  And the "double serrated ring" (which looks like it has an horizontal appendage) is whatever is fitted to the action-end of the scope.

Bill Lawrence
  
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Re: E A Leopold - Dr Baker - A O Niedner - Dr F W Mann
Reply #39 - Jan 10th, 2017 at 10:43am
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Bill Lawrence wrote on Jan 9th, 2017 at 11:38pm:
My apologies over what some in this forum call a "brain fart".  The "Malcomish" mount I was referring to is not the front but the rear, the one nearest the action.  And the "double serrated ring" (which looks like it has an horizontal appendage) is whatever is fitted to the action-end of the scope.

Bill Lawrence


Bill, So-called Malcolm mounts (which every other scope maker of the time copied, since they weren't patented, including Sidel) clamped the tube at the rear mount to prevent fore & aft movement, though it could pivot slightly to allow for windage correction. Mounts on Baker's scope allow it to slide back & forth, as do modern target scopes.
  
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Re: E A Leopold - Dr Baker - A O Niedner - Dr F W Mann
Reply #40 - Jan 10th, 2017 at 1:41pm
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The "fancy work" that appears at the junction of the grip and butt on the pictured Tom Shelhamer stock was a clever and successful attempt to raise the comb of stocks on single shot rifles in particular. It is not so needed on a borchardt, but very much so on a Hepburn. It acted as a sort of wedge to accomplish the desired result and maintain an aestheticly appealing stock.
  

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harry_eales
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Re: E A Leopold - Dr Baker - A O Niedner - Dr F W Mann
Reply #41 - Jan 11th, 2017 at 1:54am
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The Niedner built Borchardt was indeed part of Michaels collection and it was sold at Amoskeag last year. If my memory serves me correctly it sold for approx. $3,250. The action had to be hand cocked. The 03 Springfield looking firing pin was pulled to the rear a fraction of an inch and the sear engaged a safety notch which held the firing pin clear of the primer to allow the breech block to be opened. After loading the firing pin had to be pulled to full cock before firing. I have photo's of the breech block stripped down into it's individual components unfortunately they are in one of computers in the loft of my house and I am not fit enough to get up there to recover them at present.

Harry
  
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Re: E A Leopold - Dr Baker - A O Niedner - Dr F W Mann
Reply #42 - Jan 11th, 2017 at 2:40am
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Michael wrote about the Niedner-Borchardt more than once.  My understanding is that to really make the thing work, you need the special cases & case forming dies, plus the base-band jacketed bullets and then the dies for making the bullets.  That stuff was listed separately.  Sad that the auction house did not know what they had.
  
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Joe Do...
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Re: E A Leopold - Dr Baker - A O Niedner - Dr F W Mann
Reply #43 - Jan 11th, 2017 at 7:21am
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waterman wrote on Jan 11th, 2017 at 2:40am:
That stuff was listed separately.  Sad that the auction house did not know what they had.


I tried my hardest to make sure the tools that belonged to specific rifles went with those rifles.  They had also separated Niedner's "dragonfly barrel" from the Creedmoor rifle.  The auction house picked up approx. 300+ firearms across two collections and things were unfortunately separated.

... Joe
  
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Re: E A Leopold - Dr Baker - A O Niedner - Dr F W Mann
Reply #44 - Jan 11th, 2017 at 7:27am
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Guys,

       Love that old photo. I have a copy of it on my desk and have made a few trips to Shushan NY to check out the area for chuck hunting a few years ago. Never did see a chuck and when I asked land owners for permission to hunt them you'd think I was asking to violate their daughters! The fields there are not long but rather rolling and hilly. Can't see but a few places where one would expect to get a shot at a chuck over 180 to 225 yards. I'm sure that the area looks different now than it did back in 1911 when they were there. 
       My questions is who was Dr. Baker? What was  he involved in? Apparently he was a shooter. I'd just like to know a little more about him.

            Sendaro
« Last Edit: Jan 11th, 2017 at 1:01pm by Sendaro »  
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