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Do you think this is a Berg? (Read 11656 times)

LRF Oldtimer Offline Posts: 613 Location: MN Joined: May 8^th, 2010	Do you think this is a Berg? Dec 30^th, 2016 at 9:06am	Print Post
	This gun was recently offered for sale on the web. (No longer listed) Question does anyone think this may have been customized and stocked by Henry Berg? You can reference page 337 in Dutcher's book on Ballards. The barrel is obviously a Stevens-Pope in 32-40. The action was a flat side engraved #6. The stock form is so similar to the gun seen on page 337. What do you think?


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marlinguy Frequent Elocutionist Offline Ballards may be weaker, but they sure are neater! Posts: 16278 Location: Oregon Joined: Feb 2^nd, 2009	Re: Do you think this is a Berg? Reply #1 - Dec 30^th, 2016 at 11:17am	Print Post
	westerner wrote on Dec 30^th, 2016 at 10:56am: Ballard #6 with a Berg butt plate installed. Joe. Could be, but is there enough wood left when removing a factory #6 buttplate to not have to fill, or shorten the stock to fit the Berg style buttplate? The inletting is quite different on the two buttplates. Can't tell for sure, but might be a small filler at the bottom of the stock at the buttplate?

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LRF Oldtimer Offline Posts: 613 Location: MN Joined: May 8^th, 2010	Re: Do you think this is a Berg? Reply #2 - Dec 30^th, 2016 at 1:24pm	Print Post
	I think I will just call the guy who owns it and ask him what he wants for it and maybe have him pull the forearm and see if its marked, as Dutcher suggests Berg marked his guns.


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LRF Oldtimer Offline Posts: 613 Location: MN Joined: May 8^th, 2010	Re: Do you think this is a Berg? Reply #3 - Dec 30^th, 2016 at 4:08pm	Print Post
	I talked to Danny today. The rifle is still for sale and I think he will relist soon and try to get some more pictures that more clearly define the rifle and do it justice. He said the bore is near mint. He had removed the forearm and inspected. The barrel and forearm are numbered the same and the forearm also has the rifle serial number. The barrel number is 655 and the rifle is 86XX. He hadn't yet removed the buttplate but said he would do that and look to see what else he might find. Then call me. He wants $4500 for the gun. I am not going to buy as I am tapped out having bought a 4 1/2 Ballard earlier this week. If that gun is a Henry Berg and can be proven, with an engraved #6 action and a Pope numbered barrel, IMO he is not asking too much. BTW he said the buttplate is held on with a single screw in the middle of the plate. And he said the wood is a beautiful piece of wood, as good as he had ever seen in many years of being a dealer. For what every that is worth.


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marlinguy Frequent Elocutionist Offline Ballards may be weaker, but they sure are neater! Posts: 16278 Location: Oregon Joined: Feb 2^nd, 2009	Re: Do you think this is a Berg? Reply #4 - Dec 30^th, 2016 at 4:44pm	Print Post
	Interesting info on the barrel and forearm matching? The barrel is a Stevens Pope, and forearm is Ballard. So I wouldn't expect them to match each other. Most "off brand" guns rebarreled at Stevens with their Stevens-Pope barrels, also got Stevens shaped forearms. And guns fitted by an individual using the Ballard forearm wouldn't usually have a matching number to the barrel? I think the price is still fair, and I'd love to see better pictures of the gun up close. The #6 was popular gun to modify, and I rarely see them in original condition, as most became something else later in life.

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bnice Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 1861 Location: Iowa Joined: Nov 30^th, 2006	Re: Do you think this is a Berg? Reply #5 - Dec 30^th, 2016 at 5:23pm	Print Post
	tell him to start his price at his reserve and he might get it sold. Then it only takes one bid. The way it was the last bidder may have bid higher then his reserve but it did not increment up above the bidder before to make reserve. JMO


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LRF Oldtimer Offline Posts: 613 Location: MN Joined: May 8^th, 2010	Re: Do you think this is a Berg? Reply #6 - Dec 30^th, 2016 at 6:53pm	Print Post
	Vall, From my last post: "The barrel and forearm are numbered the same and the forearm also has the rifle serial number. " The forearm rifle serial number being on the end which is the usual place. The forearm is the original Ballard forearm and who ever installed the Pope barrel stamped the barrel number in it also. Dutcher states in his book that Berg obtained barrels from various suppliers, Pope being one. What ever I think it could be a nice gun to own. BTW I did mention to the owner that listing the gun for what you want and if it goes up then that is good. Either way the gun is sold which was the mission in the first place. I may call the owner again and see if he did indeed remove the butt plate and look. If anyone out there owns a Berg rifle maybe they could chime in and school us with their knowledge.


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LRF Oldtimer Offline Posts: 613 Location: MN Joined: May 8^th, 2010	Re: Do you think this is a Berg? Reply #7 - Dec 30^th, 2016 at 6:58pm	Print Post
	Joe, "The rifle lacks other Berg features", can you elaborate on what some of these would be?


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marlinguy Frequent Elocutionist Offline Ballards may be weaker, but they sure are neater! Posts: 16278 Location: Oregon Joined: Feb 2^nd, 2009	Re: Do you think this is a Berg? Reply #8 - Dec 30^th, 2016 at 8:15pm	Print Post
	westerner wrote on Dec 30^th, 2016 at 5:37pm: Would Ballard have installed a Berg plate for a customer? Joe. Not sure about Ballards, but Marlin did indeed put special order items like buttplates on guns at the customer's request! I owned an 1893 Marlin takedown that had Whitney-Kennedy trapdoor buttplate on it that was factory fitted to the gun when new. Can't see a reason that Marlin might not do the same for customers who special ordered a Ballard. As for the barrel, I doubt Pope supplied it, if it's marked "Stevens-Pope". It may have been purchased from Stevens, and installed by Berg or another. Marlin would not have installed a Stevens barrel on a Ballard. They would likely convince the customer to use their barrel.

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LRF Oldtimer Offline Posts: 613 Location: MN Joined: May 8^th, 2010	Re: Do you think this is a Berg? Reply #9 - Dec 30^th, 2016 at 8:24pm	Print Post
	As you say, Pope didn't make the barrel and it was supplied by Stevens to a gunsmith who built that gun, and if not Berg, then someone who did pretty good work. I don't think that is the original #6 butt stiock fitted with a new butt plate, but if it is then the work is no easy feat and takes a skilled craftsman to do so.


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marlinguy Frequent Elocutionist Offline Ballards may be weaker, but they sure are neater! Posts: 16278 Location: Oregon Joined: Feb 2^nd, 2009	Re: Do you think this is a Berg? Reply #10 - Dec 30^th, 2016 at 8:29pm	Print Post
	As Joe mentioned, it does have the flat bottom that's so distinctly #6 Ballard. Unsure if any gunsmiths or custom makers used that feature that Marlin used on their early #6.

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LRF Oldtimer Offline Posts: 613 Location: MN Joined: May 8^th, 2010	Re: Do you think this is a Berg? Reply #11 - Dec 30^th, 2016 at 8:57pm	Print Post
	Thanks for sharing, very nice rifle Joe and for the clarification. Its great to have all this knowledge available here. I do say who ever did that other rifle is skilled. Joe, you want to venture a guess who did it if not Berg?


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Rebel Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 4292 Location: Rockets and Race Cars Joined: Mar 9^th, 2015	Re: Do you think this is a Berg? Reply #12 - Dec 30^th, 2016 at 9:07pm	Print Post
	Joe, That Berg is exquisite Aaron

	WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. Let's Go Sonny!
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LRF Oldtimer Offline Posts: 613 Location: MN Joined: May 8^th, 2010	Re: Do you think this is a Berg? Reply #13 - Dec 30^th, 2016 at 9:59pm	Print Post
	"Would really be neat to find a note under the plate." YES that would be, Hopefully the owner calls or if he lists it again that he provides good pics and more description.


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LRF Oldtimer Offline Posts: 613 Location: MN Joined: May 8^th, 2010	Re: Do you think this is a Berg? Reply #14 - Dec 30^th, 2016 at 10:13pm	Print Post
	Joe, I am warming to your idea that the stock is an #6 fit with a different butt plate. Dutchers book page 181 #6 same checkering and serial number 8602 which is only a very few numbers away from the rifle for sale. Unfortunately the gun on pp181 is only more of a pic of the action and not the whole butt stock. BTW the engraving on both is the same pattern.


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