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SmallBoreBuyer
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Cartridge Selection for Breech- Seated Rifle
Dec 4th, 2016 at 4:57pm
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As I mull various options the following questions occurred to me.

If the bullet is breech seated and the case is not touching the bullet does the cartridge matter aside from caliber and capacity?

I realize there might be issues with regard to propogation across the powder - how significant are they?

If one is sticking to the lower end of pressure, is there any disadvantage of going with a straight-walled case that headspaces off the rim?

The CPA site is not fond of the Maynard 22 Extra Long Centerfire, accuracy-wise.  If one breech seated it, is there any reason to think it wouldn't be as accurate as, say, match 22RF ammo?

TIA.
  
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Jeff_Schultz
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Re: Cartridge Selection for Breech- Seated Rifle
Reply #1 - Dec 4th, 2016 at 5:35pm
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" propogation across the powder"
  I am unfamiliar with this; can you elaborate?
  

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SmallBoreBuyer
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Re: Cartridge Selection for Breech- Seated Rifle
Reply #2 - Dec 4th, 2016 at 5:46pm
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Jeff_Schultz wrote on Dec 4th, 2016 at 5:35pm:
" propogation across the powder"
  I am unfamiliar with this; can you elaborate?


Bear with me as I am remembering stuff from high school.

Imagine two .30 caliber cartridges of equal capacity, filled to the maximum.  One is a straight cylinder the other a very squat, wide shape.  After the primer is struck, the propogation of the explosion through the powder could be quite different, in the first cartridge moving along a longer, narrower path and in the second, potentially, a more spherical, faster path.

I could be all wet on this, but it seems to make sense.
« Last Edit: Dec 4th, 2016 at 10:10pm by SmallBoreBuyer »  
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frnkeore
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Re: Cartridge Selection for Breech- Seated Rifle
Reply #3 - Dec 4th, 2016 at 6:44pm
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SmallBoreBuyer wrote on Dec 4th, 2016 at 4:57pm:
As I mull various options the following questions occurred to me.

If the bullet is breech seated and the case is not touching the bullet does the cartridge matter aside from caliber and capacity?

In BSing, the case's main role is to ingite the power and seal the chamber.

I realize there might be issues with regard to propogation across the powder - how significant are they?

The calibers that we use, the shape and capacity of the chamber, doesn't seem to matter. In 32 caliber, the Miller short, and 32/40 Ballard are competitive against each other and I believe if the 32/40 Remington (larger than 32/40 Ballard), where in common use, it would also be competive 

If one is sticking to the lower end of pressure, is there any disadvantage of going with a straight-walled case that headspaces off the rim?

No

The CPA site is not fond of the Maynard 22 Extra Long Centerfire, accuracy-wise.  If one breech seated it, is there any reason to think it wouldn't be as accurate as, say, match 22RF ammo?

The 22RF can also be competitive, against Eley, RWS and Lupua, if BSed. I have won 2 of my local matches, BSing my 22RF, against those brands.

TIA.


Frank
  

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calledflyer
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Re: Cartridge Selection for Breech- Seated Rifle
Reply #4 - Dec 4th, 2016 at 9:42pm
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At the price of, and the availability of some powders, I wish my powder would propagate. Particularly 4759. It could propagate all night, I'd even give it a bedroom of it's own and let it make noises.
  
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ledball
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Re: Cartridge Selection for Breech- Seated Rifle
Reply #5 - Dec 5th, 2016 at 9:35am
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Frank has answered your questions.  Ledball
  
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Re: Cartridge Selection for Breech- Seated Rifle
Reply #6 - Dec 5th, 2016 at 12:35pm
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Frank,

At the risk of being admonished for hijacking a thread, could you please give a brief description of the procedure for breech seating 22RF?

I've never attempted it or heard of anyone else who has, but it sure sounds intriguing!

Thanks in advance,

Hayface
  
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SmallBoreBuyer
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Re: Cartridge Selection for Breech- Seated Rifle
Reply #7 - Dec 5th, 2016 at 12:37pm
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ledball wrote on Dec 5th, 2016 at 9:35am:
Frank has answered your questions.  Ledball

I agree, except with regard to the accuracy potential of the Maynard 22 XL in a breech-seated configuration.

Any thoughts on this last remaining question?
  
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frnkeore
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Re: Cartridge Selection for Breech- Seated Rifle
Reply #8 - Dec 5th, 2016 at 4:37pm
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Hayface wrote on Dec 5th, 2016 at 12:35pm:
Frank,

At the risk of being admonished for hijacking a thread, could you please give a brief description of the procedure for breech seating 22RF?

I've never attempted it or heard of anyone else who has, but it sure sounds intriguing!

Thanks in advance,

Hayface


Here some info from this last year:

(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)

PM me for more info on loading tools.

Frank
  

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Re: Cartridge Selection for Breech- Seated Rifle
Reply #9 - Dec 6th, 2016 at 9:13pm
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Frank,

Thank you, that is the kind of info I was looking for and most intriguing.  I will PM you soon for more info, but have unexpectedly had some projects dropped in my lap that will likely keep me away from the computer for a few days. 

Hayface

  
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Re: Cartridge Selection for Breech- Seated Rifle
Reply #10 - Dec 14th, 2016 at 10:44pm
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Two non traditional options for a straight taper case come to mind.   You will need to get Cody at Rocky Mtn Cartridges to turn a few cases for you. Both are from Stevens.

28-30 Stevens
32-35 Stevens (a .308 groove diameter)   

I have a 28-30 in a CPA and it is a great option for staying supersonic beyond 200 yards will low pressure and long case life.  (Small Rifle Primer)

If you want to look up load data and comments see the attached link, Pages 372 and 395.   If you are really good with casting, the 25-20 SS is an additional option.  However, I stopped trying to cast smaller than 28 cal.

Complete Guide To Handloading Philip Sharpe 1937
(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)

For a more traditional option, 32-40 is a good choice.   You can form 32-40 from 38-55 brass easily.  Starline has regular runs of 38-55 cases.


Good luck.
  
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SmallBoreBuyer
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Re: Cartridge Selection for Breech- Seated Rifle
Reply #11 - Dec 14th, 2016 at 11:36pm
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herrschutz wrote on Dec 14th, 2016 at 10:44pm:
Two non traditional options for a straight taper case come to mind.   You will need to get Cody at Rocky Mtn Cartridges to turn a few cases for you. Both are from Stevens.

28-30 Stevens
32-35 Stevens (a .308 groove diameter)  

I have a 28-30 in a CPA and it is a great option for staying supersonic beyond 200 yards will low pressure and long case life.  (Small Rifle Primer)

If you want to look up load data and comments see the attached link, Pages 372 and 395.   If you are really good with casting, the 25-20 SS is an additional option.  However, I stopped trying to cast smaller than 28 cal.

Complete Guide To Handloading Philip Sharpe 1937
(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)

For a more traditional option, 32-40 is a good choice.   You can form 32-40 from 38-55 brass easily.  Starline has regular runs of 38-55 cases.


Good luck.


Thanks so much!

The book is amazing, though very large.

I am going to be up late tonight.

Are high quality 22 and 25 cal cast boolits available commercially?
  
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QuestionableMaynard8130
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Re: Cartridge Selection for Breech- Seated Rifle
Reply #12 - Dec 15th, 2016 at 10:17am
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not sure about "boolits"   Grin  but if you mean "bullets" you might find some .25s from some of the vendors listed is the for sale list at the top of that page. 
  I suspect that the cast-bullet market for .22 cal is now too limited for production to be commercially viable.
  Even many of the mold makers are reluctant to make molds much smaller than .30 caliber---especially if they are lathe cutting them.   One of the .22rf experimental reloaders got up a group buy of .22rf molds a while back--but I believe that source may have dried up. Lyman periodically makes a run of their standard .22 cal bullets.

In general the smaller the cartridge case and bore diameter the less tolerance there is for +/- errors in reloading

EDIT:     one thing though I want to add is that in this unique little aspect of the shooting sports logic and rationality are not always the critical element.  we are all pretty much tinkerers and experimenters with a fair measure of Don Quixote thrown into the creative powder-measure  why else would we spend perfectly good money to mess with antique obsolete rifles loading oddball cartridges in a strange manner to shoot in near archaic forms of competition with no prizes at stake.   so Follow your own heart just be safe.  welcome to the madhouse
« Last Edit: Dec 15th, 2016 at 11:18am by QuestionableMaynard8130 »  

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Re: Cartridge Selection for Breech- Seated Rifle
Reply #13 - Dec 15th, 2016 at 12:05pm
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QuestionableMaynard8130 wrote on Dec 15th, 2016 at 10:17am:
not sure about "boolits"   Grin 

I lost track of which forum I was on. Embarrassed
  
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Re: Cartridge Selection for Breech- Seated Rifle
Reply #14 - Dec 15th, 2016 at 3:42pm
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No worries.  We've all had our beatings for that transgression... Wink
  

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