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hepburnman
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Neck Turning, Anyone?
Nov 18th, 2016 at 11:13am
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I am wondering if anyone has found that neck turning their brass has accuracy improvement potential for our mostly straight-walled cases, lead-bullet guns? I know this is a useful procedure for modern rifles shooting bottle-neck cases and copper-jacketed bullets, but in our case, aren't we at least concerned with the bullet bumping up concentrically before entering the bore? If one has formed brass down from say, 45-70 to 40-65 size, I would expect the possibility that there would be some neck-area thickness non-uniformity occurring. Also, some chamber designs (40-65, at least) do try and have a cylindrical neck area, so maybe neck-turning for case-wall thickness uniformity might be doable here but not sure yet if it would be worth the effort. What might be the collective thinking on this? Smiley
  
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calledflyer
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Re: Neck Turning, Anyone?
Reply #1 - Nov 18th, 2016 at 1:02pm
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Having done neck turning for benchrest shooting of the usual style, and liking to fiddle with ammo in general, I tried it when I first began shooting cast in a rifle. Now, unless for a cartridge conversion, I wouldn't bother with average quality brass. The whole gooey mass of gas, lead and lube doesn't really get anything worthwhile from a uniformed neck, and it might lessen neck tension for those who want a little. And, for breech seating it's a completely useless operation. Just my thoughts, and I'll bet some would disagree.
  
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mes
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Re: Neck Turning, Anyone?
Reply #2 - Nov 18th, 2016 at 2:22pm
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I like to turn the necks till they average about half of the neck having brass removed.  I think it allows you to make ammunition with less bullet runout due to the more uniform neck thickness. 

Most full length dies will size the case more than needed even with less brass to size. If you neck size with buttons in the dies like the Redding dies you may need to get a sizing button the is a bit tighter.

And it is useless when breech seating.
  

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calledflyer
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Re: Neck Turning, Anyone?
Reply #3 - Nov 18th, 2016 at 2:41pm
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I ought to stress that my avoiding neck turning for cast is based on generally good necks to start. Most of the cases I find myself using are only one or two thou from even to begin- not enough for cast to know about in my opinion. Making better cases out of real bad brass, or brass that's been heavily reformed might make me go ahead and do it. A real snug chamber might be another reason, but not one that I've had to deal with lately.  If a person wants to go ahead and perform this operation just to uniform things no harm is done. Wink
  
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Quarter_Bore
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Re: Neck Turning, Anyone?
Reply #4 - Nov 19th, 2016 at 7:24am
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Mes,
I would say that it is worse then useless for breechseating as it makes breechseaters nearly impossible to make and limits bullet choices to one particular  diameter.
  
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QuestionableMaynard8130
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Re: Neck Turning, Anyone?
Reply #5 - Nov 19th, 2016 at 9:02am
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For breech seating the case is little more than the primer and powder carrier and often never even touches the bullet. As long as you are getting a good case-mouth to chamber-wall seal I'd say its unnecessary  


IF I was using fixed ammo (like some off-hand shooters do) it MIGHT make a difference.  I think the major factor there is "shooter-induced-angle-of-dispersion"; and I doubt that a slightly more uniform neck tension will have a measurable impact on that.  
However everything else being equal, the less time the shooter has to screw up the shot the better Wink

I do think that when one is having to create new cases for a round by modifying factory cases (Ie modifying 30-30 Win class cases to make larger of smaller bulleted round) I'd consider neck ---making 25-35s out of 30-30s as an example----turning as part of the case reforming process might make sense.  Especially if that round might be also used with jacketed hunting loads for field use.
  

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SgtDog0311
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Re: Neck Turning, Anyone?
Reply #6 - Nov 19th, 2016 at 10:21am
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I have not breech seated yet so no experience there.   

I have turned the inside of my "reamed" when using 405 brass in my 40-63.   I found that the small lip where the reamer bottomed out had more of a shoulder on one side than the other which indicates to me that control in that process is less than optimal and imperfections already present are left and possibly even exaggerated.   But in that case it is necessary as the chamber is too small to allow groove size bullets.   

Later I drew and purchased a reamer for a tight chamber in a 40-65 which I knew would require neck turning and got familiar with that process.  Again, this was necessary for a tight chamber.   

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After finding "turning" to be an easier process with more control on wall thickness I converted all my 40-63 brass to neck turned brass as well.    

I can't speak to accuracy improvements though since I started out with turned cases - meaning I didn't get a benchmark to measure group size against.   

I will say it gives you some control over fit in the chamber.   I have an old Marlin 1895 with a chamber neck that is only .250 long.  If I want to minimize the brass sizing I can turn about .300 on those cases and have very little change with an optimal fit in the chamber.   On my Ballard 40-65 I can lengthen how deep I chose to turn and again have a near mirror fit to the chamber.   That and a bushing die allows me to do less sizing.
  

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John
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butch lambert
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Re: Neck Turning, Anyone?
Reply #7 - Nov 19th, 2016 at 4:28pm
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I do it on my bottle neck BR rifle as it is a tight neck. Most bottle neck brass is of a quality that I don't do it on anything else. My rifles with straight wall cases aren't BR quality cartridges.
  
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40_Rod
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Re: Neck Turning, Anyone?
Reply #8 - Nov 20th, 2016 at 8:58am
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Breech-seating was your great grandfather's work-around for neck turning.

40 Rod
  
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marlinguy
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Re: Neck Turning, Anyone?
Reply #9 - Nov 20th, 2016 at 10:53am
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Breech seating is the choice of most schuetzen shooters on this forum, but a lot of single shot shooters shoot fixed ammo for other types of shooting, and neck turning can often be a mandatory thing to enable donor cases to work as fixed cartridges. 
As SgtDog311, I also have some guns chambered for Everlasting paper patch cartridges that require neck turning to shoot lubed fixed bullets. Since I couldn't even chamber cartridges with fixed bullets without neck turning, I have no comparison to use for accuracy. But I know without I'd be forced to either breech seat, or use paper patch bullets to even enjoy the same guns.
  

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