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Shell collapsing (Read 12372 times)

Schuetzenmiester Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 6707 Location: Cool Wet Side of WA Joined: Apr 27^th, 2008	Re: Shell collapsing Reply #15 - Nov 16^th, 2016 at 1:12pm	Print Post
	I think it would work if it is going to. My 25 was collapsing a case nearly every shot. I have had it happen occasionally in other rifles for no apparent rhyme or reason. Did it only happen one time?

	"some old things are lovely, warm still with life ... of the forgotten men who made them." - D.H. Lawrence
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Fritz Oldtimer Offline Posts: 518 Location: Texas Joined: Jun 27^th, 2008	Re: Shell collapsing Reply #16 - Nov 16^th, 2016 at 1:14pm	Print Post
	I usually cut my floral foam in 1/8" thick sheets and have found them to be sufficient and w/o probs with cases.


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Schutzenbob Frequent Elocutionist Offline Rheinisch-Westfälisc hen Sprengstoff-Fabriken Posts: 2288 Location: Nightingale, California Joined: Oct 24^th, 2005	Re: Shell collapsing Reply #17 - Nov 16^th, 2016 at 3:31pm	Print Post
	Some years ago, I occasionally shot with Chris Hodgdon, and I asked Chris about the phenomenon of my 32-40 case mouth collapsing; he told me that it's because the calibers we shoot are such low pressure, that we need to flair the mouth of the case, particularly when we use the same case over and over. I made a very simple flaring tool that I use each time I load, and it seems to work.


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frnkeore Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 7665 Location: Central Point, OR 97502 Joined: Jun 16^th, 2010	Re: Shell collapsing Reply #18 - Nov 16^th, 2016 at 3:47pm	Print Post
	CC, You still haven't told us how far in front of the case that your BSing the bullet. if your going to use wads, I think that's a important variable. You might run into problems if the wad has to much of a run before contacting the bullet base. A win/win might be SchuetzenDave's pipe insulation wads, installed in the case mouth. They would seal the case mouth and if, only put in the neck about 1/4", they would take up some space between the end of the case and the bullet base. Dave cuts them with a 3/8 wad punch for 32 cal. Bob, I only have one 25, a 25/20SS, while I've never collapsed a case (I use G&H cases), I have wrinkled one or two BSed. It's a slow twist and I can only use a 60 gr bullet. You could try varying the BS depth or, maybe try those pipe insulation wads and see if that helps. Frank

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Schuetzenmiester Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 6707 Location: Cool Wet Side of WA Joined: Apr 27^th, 2008	Re: Shell collapsing Reply #19 - Nov 16^th, 2016 at 5:07pm	Print Post
	Frank, I change to pipe insulation because they are more convenient and not so fragile in handling. It didn't seem to matter, both worked. I have shot other rifle with the bullet as much as 3/8" in front of the case without any problems. I have never found flaring the case to have any impact of the issue. In my 33, the cases form to where they will pop back out if I insert them too quickly due to compressing air, but about every 1000 shots or so, a case will partially collapse. Can't recall if 32-40 did it or not, too many years ago. 8.15 x 46R never did. 32 cases are Win, 25 are Rem and 8.15 are RWS.

	"some old things are lovely, warm still with life ... of the forgotten men who made them." - D.H. Lawrence
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Schutzenbob Frequent Elocutionist Offline Rheinisch-Westfälisc hen Sprengstoff-Fabriken Posts: 2288 Location: Nightingale, California Joined: Oct 24^th, 2005	Re: Shell collapsing Reply #20 - Nov 16^th, 2016 at 9:04pm	Print Post
	The only thing that I would add to my remarks is that chambers seem to make a difference. I've owned rifles that didn't require flaring the mouth of the case, but then some require it every shot. I like to be able to feel the mouth of the case slightly scrape the inside of the chamber as I push it in. As always.....your mileage may vary.
	« Last Edit: Nov 16^th, 2016 at 9:12pm by Schutzenbob »

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Schuetzenmiester Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 6707 Location: Cool Wet Side of WA Joined: Apr 27^th, 2008	Re: Shell collapsing Reply #21 - Nov 16^th, 2016 at 10:40pm	Print Post
	That makes sense. Dick Spenser's was identical to my chamber and barrel and it did the same thing.

	"some old things are lovely, warm still with life ... of the forgotten men who made them." - D.H. Lawrence
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frnkeore Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 7665 Location: Central Point, OR 97502 Joined: Jun 16^th, 2010	Re: Shell collapsing Reply #22 - Nov 17^th, 2016 at 12:17am	Print Post
	The Schuetzen type chamber (straight taper, no neck) is a lot better in regard to collapsed necks. I can't remember collapsing a neck with mine. Standard 32/40 chambers can be redone to the Schuetzen but, you can't do that with the 25/20SS. Stiff loads can usually stop collapsed necks. Bob, Have you tried 1600+ fps loads like Jerry uses? Frank

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Schuetzenmiester Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 6707 Location: Cool Wet Side of WA Joined: Apr 27^th, 2008	Re: Shell collapsing Reply #23 - Nov 17^th, 2016 at 3:09am	Print Post
	Haven't chronographed it, but most likely. Primers looked a little hot and extraction a bit sticky. It didn't matter. Wads stopped it. The chamber is a straight taper. I'm sure Dick had Ron's input making the reamer.

	"some old things are lovely, warm still with life ... of the forgotten men who made them." - D.H. Lawrence
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irish66 Oldtimer Offline Posts: 546 Location: newbraunfels Joined: Apr 7^th, 2007	Re: Shell collapsing Reply #24 - Nov 17^th, 2016 at 6:31am	Print Post
	Experienced this using 4227. Changed to 4759 and it stopped.


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40_Rod Frequent Elocutionist Offline Extremism in the persuit of accuracy is not a vice Posts: 4285 Location: Knoxville, TN Joined: Apr 20^th, 2004	Re: Shell collapsing Reply #25 - Nov 17^th, 2016 at 8:58am	Print Post
	Charlei I never use foam in my rifles I either use cork or felt. My cork wads are .090" thick my felt are about .060 thick. 40 Rod


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bnice Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 1964 Location: Iowa Joined: Nov 30^th, 2006	Re: Shell collapsing Reply #26 - Nov 17^th, 2016 at 11:39am	Print Post
	Since flaring the mouth and wads are both easy to try I would suggest trying both separate and see if either or both work. Again I always do both with pretty good results and my wads are floral foam and usually around 1/8" thick. Make sure the foam you use burns to a dust and does not melt. Let us know your results. Also I also made a flair tool but have used the lee universal expander tool which works for almost all calibers.


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cheatin_charlie Senior Forum Member Offline Posts: 429 Location: ohio Joined: Jan 10^th, 2009	Re: Shell collapsing Reply #27 - Nov 17^th, 2016 at 1:20pm	Print Post
	I don't know when I will get back out. I must have been lucky the last 20 some years because I have never had this problem on my rifles. I have received a lot of good advice and will experiment with what you all have said and see if I can resolve the problem. By the way I was seating the bullets about 3/8 ahead of the case. This whole thing was just an experiment to see if the barrel was good. I had never had a case collapse before but it is good to know it is a common problem. Will post when I have more results. Thanks All


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Schuetzenmiester Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 6707 Location: Cool Wet Side of WA Joined: Apr 27^th, 2008	Re: Shell collapsing Reply #28 - Nov 17^th, 2016 at 6:19pm	Print Post
	Bill Crane had the best explaination which applies to all circumstances ; "It just happens sometimes."

	"some old things are lovely, warm still with life ... of the forgotten men who made them." - D.H. Lawrence
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