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MAC
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Browning B78 25-06 problems with Nosler 110 gr
Oct 24th, 2016 at 11:17am
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Good morning forum,
I am having trouble developing loads for my 25-06 B78 Octagon Barrel, and would appreciate any advice,

Here are some facts,
- Job on the trigger by gunsmith, breaks clean & crisp.
- Job on forend, used to touch barrel, now it's floated.
Currently  I am reloading,
- Neck Sizing just touching case shoulder, no feeding or extraction issues that I can see.
- 110 gr Nosler Accubonds,
- 53.5 gr of RL22
- Winchester Brass - now onto 4th reload
- Federal 210 primer.
- COAL 3.231""
- Jump to lands 0.015"
- AVG Muzzle speed - 2,940 fps
- New Leupold VXII 3.5x10 nice and tight. 
Group size averages 1.5" @ 1oo yd.
Some might say this loads are rather slow, however as soon as I arrived at 54 gr I started seeing flattened and blown primers with federal brass.
I really hope I can get more accuracy and speed out of this 110 accubonds, I wonder if the bullets need to be pushed back a bit to relieve some possible initial pressure.
Any advice will be most welcome as I would like to use this come next whitetail season.

Thanks a mill,
  
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SSShooter
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Re: Browning B78 25-06 problems with Nosler 110 gr
Reply #1 - Oct 25th, 2016 at 8:41am
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What barrel & twist?
You might need to jam the bullet. 
You might do better over on this forum. Lots of top high power shooters post here.
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Glenn - Stevens 044 1/2, Bartlein SS 5R barrel in 22LR
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Re: Browning B78 25-06 problems with Nosler 110 gr
Reply #2 - Oct 25th, 2016 at 9:18am
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Thanks a mill for your response,

The barrel is 26" and twist is 1:10

The cronograph seems to be ok, 120 gr Remington factory ammo averages 2930 fps.
I cant seem to get more than 2950 fps from 110 gr Accubonds with RL22 without getting into primer issues.
I wonder given the 26" barrel length perhaps I should try a slower powder such as IMR7828 ?
Thanks again for your input.
  
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Premod70
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Re: Browning B78 25-06 problems with Nosler 110 gr
Reply #3 - Oct 25th, 2016 at 9:57am
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The load you are using is not a very hot load. Are your cases completely clean and dry as well as the chamber? Too many folks these days and time using high tech lubes that will cause havoc if the slightest amount is left unattended. Another thought is try another make of brass, some brass made today is not as strong as thought, especially the brand you are using. Good luck.
  
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MAC
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Re: Browning B78 25-06 problems with Nosler 110 gr
Reply #4 - Oct 25th, 2016 at 10:13am
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Many Thanks Premod70

I am quite thorough cleaning cases and primer pockets, I do clean cases once finished, chamber is also clean.
Started reloading Federal Brass, now using Winchester, however primers look somewhat flat.

Small world, I used to live in Raleigh, Wonderful Times !!
  
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Re: Browning B78 25-06 problems with Nosler 110 gr
Reply #5 - Oct 25th, 2016 at 10:39am
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Another thought is the forearm. Do you have it floated away from the action? A tight forearm can cause accuracy problems.
  

Glenn - Stevens 044 1/2, Bartlein SS 5R barrel in 22LR
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marlinguy
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Re: Browning B78 25-06 problems with Nosler 110 gr
Reply #6 - Oct 25th, 2016 at 10:41am
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  Curious about the comment that this load of RL22  is " not a very hot load"? From the data I see in my loading manuals it's up there near maximum loads for the bullet and powder. I agree it shouldn't see excess pressure signs, but it's not a mid range charge from what I see.
The velocities you're getting are correct for the data I see, but still near maximum loads, so maybe you need to either switch to another powder, or back off on the charge one grain. I personally don't load my varmint or hunting rifles for maximum speed, but rather for maximum accuracy. Once I've reached the most accurate group size, I stop there, regardless if it's as hot as I'd like to go.
I've played with free floating barrels, and on occasion had to put the pressure point back in the end of a forearm, as I lost accuracy as a barrel warmed up. This is especially true on lighter weight barrels, as they tend to vertically string shots as they warm up if the pressure point is removed. Sometimes the factory is right in putting that pressure point in the forearm.
  

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Re: Browning B78 25-06 problems with Nosler 110 gr
Reply #7 - Oct 25th, 2016 at 11:51am
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Thanks for your input,

Yep, forearm has been fully floated, no contact with barrel whatsoever, it used to contact the barrel when new but groups used to string awfully.
The heavy octagonal barrel barely heats with 3 shot groups.
I also let cool completely between groups.

Note; Remington 120 gr groups open to around 2", however they chronograph at just 10 fps less than the 110 gr Accubonds, with no signs of pressure whatsoever on primers with the 120 gr factory loads, therein lies what I consider a real mystery.

I wonder if anyone has any experience using IMR7828 with this caliber-bullet combo ?

Thanks a mill
  
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Re: Browning B78 25-06 problems with Nosler 110 gr
Reply #8 - Oct 25th, 2016 at 12:06pm
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Keep yer RL22 and use it when you rebarrel that thing to .280 Rem. It's a far nicer, more versatile round and mine has always done real well with that powder. Never even held a can of 7828 in my paw. 
Two .25-06 rifles I have experience with were testy at the upper range of loading and neither was worth a pinch or s#$^% in the wind. When kept down to about .257 Roberts loads they were pretty good, so why not just stick to that round for .25 cal.? Just my opinion, of course. Smiley
  
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marlinguy
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Re: Browning B78 25-06 problems with Nosler 110 gr
Reply #9 - Oct 25th, 2016 at 12:15pm
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My .25-06 and my .22-250 both shoot much better in the medium levels of charges. They will shoot dime sized groups at 100 yds. off the bench when loaded down. As I began to try and push them closer towards maximum velocities, the groups began to open up also. Both guns and calibers began showing some pressure changes before I reached max loads in the manual, so I stopped and went back to the most accurate loads. Both OT Rem. 700 bolt guns.
  

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Re: Browning B78 25-06 problems with Nosler 110 gr
Reply #10 - Oct 25th, 2016 at 2:15pm
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Mac, how about a picture of a flattened primer from this load. If in this predicament I would change components starting with a fresh box of Norma brass, the two brands of brass you are using can be suspect compared to Norma.
  
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Re: Browning B78 25-06 problems with Nosler 110 gr
Reply #11 - Oct 26th, 2016 at 10:10am
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Hi Premod70,

Here's a few pics of the primers using Winchester Brass, including a blown one.

I lack experience diagnosing primers, I would love to hear some comments. Primers used are Federal 210.

This is the max load I reached using 54 gr of RL22.
This is the only Winchester case I've had problems with, but using Federal brass I had a few more instances.

I am seating the bullets 0.010"-.015" from the lands, could this be an issue ?

Thanks all for your input.
  
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Re: Browning B78 25-06 problems with Nosler 110 gr
Reply #12 - Oct 26th, 2016 at 10:54am
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I am 74 and been reloading since I was 19. I think the problem you have is from the initial reduce 10% and work upl I had a gun in 25-06 and so did my buddy. Different make of rifles. Mine was not shooting good one day at the range and I asked him for three rounds to test his load in my gun. His gun shot this load with no problem and when I put it in my gun we had to beat the bolt open. Apparently my gun had a much tighter chamber and would not handle that load. Chamber reamers have a maximum and minimum size. His rifle had a larger chamber and mine was smaller and created more pressure with the load that would shoot good in his rifle. My 2cents worth.
  

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Re: Browning B78 25-06 problems with Nosler 110 gr
Reply #13 - Oct 26th, 2016 at 3:31pm
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Mac, the primers show no excessive pressures, rather a powder that is too slow in the burn rate for your case. Clunk the smoked cases and try Reloder 19, here's Nosler's load suggestions; (You need to Login or Register to view media files and links) . Click down to the 110 grain bullet to find your load, for some reason the link defaults to the 85 grain table, not a good place to be starting a load for a 110 grainer! Good luck.
« Last Edit: Oct 26th, 2016 at 6:20pm by Premod70 »  
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Re: Browning B78 25-06 problems with Nosler 110 gr
Reply #14 - Oct 26th, 2016 at 6:58pm
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I have a CPA with a  25 Kraig barrel. With 117 G Sierras and a 10x Unertl  not pushed real fast its about a 1 1/2 MOA rifle. Sometimes a bit better not much. Too fast it opens up. .25 Kraig has about the same potential as a 25/06, little less case capacity which most would say is an advantage. 

Sporter stocked factory barreled  rifle I would not expect better. Go to a flat forearm and straight stock bost  the scope to 20 power may get another 1/4 MOA out of the Browning. 

Having said all that if looking for improvement I would go to a Sierra 117 Match King. Switching bullets likely to have the greatest effect.

Boats.
  
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