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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) 35-40 Bullet Candidate (Read 32288 times)
Hiwall55
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Re: 35-40 Bullet Candidate
Reply #30 - Jul 27th, 2016 at 5:19pm
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John the 2 on the right weigh 345 grains, the far right on was made for me by Paul Jones both are bore riding, but will fit in bore .
Kidd here's what I did with the 38 gloveless bullet. Take a cast billet and run it between 2 bastard files then size it putting lube in the grooves you just made. Weigh your bullet then weigh the groove less I'll bet it is carrying more lube.
  
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SgtDog0311
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Re: 35-40 Bullet Candidate
Reply #31 - Jul 27th, 2016 at 6:47pm
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Thank You Hiwall!
  

Best Regards,
John
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Hiwall55
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Re: 35-40 Bullet Candidate
Reply #32 - Jul 27th, 2016 at 8:26pm
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John you know Harlans chicken bullet is for a 12 twist, I don't know how it works in a 14 twist. My P-J bullet is 1.475 long ,nose measures .3495 to .3497 and seats .380 in case with all lube grooves covered. It is 10 twist and uses 2.080 brass, bullets are tight hand fitted. It's the one on the right in picture.I shoot it in a 26 inch barreled Browning BPCR
  
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SgtDog0311
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Re: 35-40 Bullet Candidate
Reply #33 - Jul 27th, 2016 at 10:46pm
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Hiwall,  Thanks for that.   I calculated it out once back in January before I ordered the liner and it worked on paper.   I'll have to go look for my calculations or do them over.   FWIW, Tom Myer's software,  the drawings these are done in, gives me a stability factor of 2 for the drawing.   I'll have to revisit how I did the calculations - not quite second nature to me yet but in January I did spend some time on it.  Nothing proves the point like shooting them but it's a good caution before spending dwindling $$ on the mold.

btw, if anybody has used Boomer I'd be interested in whether you were satisfied.  That's another decision point for me.   He does molds for roughly $100 according to his web site.   At that price I kinda wanted to see how they performed for future reference but I did consider a Brooks initially.  I have one Brooks and no Paul Jones.  Otherwise all mine are Accurate, LBT, Lyman or RCBS.
  

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John
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SgtDog0311
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Re: 35-40 Bullet Candidate
Reply #34 - Aug 1st, 2016 at 12:28pm
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I had a good exchange with Tom (bullet/chamber design software developer).    It started out as a discussion on what is meant when we say “filling the throat” but as a byproduct he offered his version of a bullet that fit my chamber.  He’d seen mine so knew something about what I was looking for.    His bullet decreases the number of driving bands and lube grooves, pushes them back towards the base so as all but one lube groove is inside the neck and makes the front driving band taper to fit the 3* leade.    Also -- a little difficult to see at a glance but there is about .075 of bore riding diameter in front of the driving band.

I like it about as well as anything I’ve drawn but would enjoy hearing from you Frank and Hiwall, Beltfed too if you have any opinion on which may be preferable between the two.    I guess the limitation is a loss of flexibility in seating depth… at least cheating it forward.    

As for myself, I do like a longer base band.  And I might decrease the grease groove depth per previous discussion/recommendation.  I like the way he accomplished what Frank accomplished with the increase in the first two driving band diameters. 


This is what Tom wrote specifically about the drawing:
“…. I like to have a grease groove right at the chamber mouth so that, when the bullet initially expands from the Black Powder detonation and inertia is hindering forward movement, the lube in the forward groove will be forced into the gap between the case mouth and start of the freebore. (if lube is in there, then no lead can be extruded into the space and cause the little lead rings that sometimes form).
 
The front band is constructed with a 3 degree taper that matches the leade angle into the rifling and the top and bottom diameters are 0.0005”  less than leade diameters the same as the 0.0005”  clearance of the bore ride diameter.
Respectfully,
Tom Myers
(218) 472_3226
Precision Ballistics and Load Records
The Precision Software Store


A note on the reduction of driving bands and grease grooves:  When I ran a mini-groove design by Steve Brooks earlier this year his comment was that they sometimes have more difficulty falling from the mold.   I don’t have any mini-groove so can’t speak to that but it sounds plausible.   Any comment on that point?  Steve was also an advocate of a longer base band.   

Thanks for taking the time to have a look – and comment if you have any thoughts either way.  btw... I learned how to do multiple pictures
  

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John
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frnkeore
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Re: 35-40 Bullet Candidate
Reply #35 - Aug 1st, 2016 at 1:13pm
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I have no issue with the wider bands. I would have suggest that, too but, I assumed it was something that you needed. In calibers over 28, I like a minimum of .060 for smokeless for band width and a minimum of .045 for 28 and under.

I still think that the grooves are to deep, especially with that many. I'd go back to the .329 minor diameter. Did Tom have any rational regarding increasing the groove depth?

For 30+ caliber, I use a maxium of .015 groove depth (smokeless or BP) and <28 cal, I use .012 as a max depth.

Both of the above spec's to produce a stronger bullet over all and more resitant to torque loads.

Frank
  

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beltfed
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Re: 35-40 Bullet Candidate
Reply #36 - Aug 1st, 2016 at 2:10pm
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First of all , I agree with Frank, groove dia 0.330 for 0.0150 depth. 
Then, Why seat the bullet 1/2 inch into the case. ===lost powder capacity.
I would go thusly, starting with the base
1. base band, 0.359"
2nd from base, 0.359"
3rd from base, use the 3 degree taper here .357  to 0.349
4th, 5th 0.349, 0.3485
"base of nose at 0.348.
Now you can seat the bullet only about 0.2" or so in the FF case, and use more powder.
While the bullet is 2/3 to 3/4 of its bearing surface effectively breech seated for excellent concentricity to the bore.
beltfed/arnie
  
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SgtDog0311
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Re: 35-40 Bullet Candidate
Reply #37 - Aug 1st, 2016 at 3:17pm
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Thanks for the comments Fellahs,

Frank,  I think the one I sent Tom may have been the deeper lube grooves so I'm not sure if it was his preference or he was just reacting to some of my fretting over how much volume I needed.  I've never been sure on volume requirements nor run into issues either, just made comparisons over drawings with such data available.   

Again, thank you for the feedback.
  

Best Regards,
John
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Hiwall55
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Re: 35-40 Bullet Candidate
Reply #38 - Aug 1st, 2016 at 5:27pm
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I think Arnie has the right idea but you would probably have to wipe between shots, blow tubing you might need a little more lube.
  
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SgtDog0311
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Re: 35-40 Bullet Candidate
Reply #39 - Aug 1st, 2016 at 6:09pm
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Hiwall55,  thank you for the feedback sir.

I'll make my decision from what I have here and do a little redrawing.   Still have not seen much feedback on the Boomer products, just mention of the same question on CB.   
  

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John
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beltfed
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Re: 35-40 Bullet Candidate
Reply #40 - Aug 1st, 2016 at 6:48pm
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Thank you Highwall 55,
Indeed, go to wiping with minigroove bullets.
beltfed/arnie
  
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kkid66
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Re: 35-40 Bullet Candidate
Reply #41 - Aug 2nd, 2016 at 8:50am
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Fouling control seems to be a must on the 35-40 and leading has been no problem so far even with the Dan T grooveless bullet but I do roll four very light grooves with my ch knurling tool.
Best groups at pig line have been 30-1 alloy at 1190 +/- fps
  
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Stevewhr
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Re: 35-40 Bullet Candidate
Reply #42 - Aug 2nd, 2016 at 2:52pm
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John, you probably know my thoughts. I'm with Arnie. The idea of faux breech seating and with that added powder capacity just seems to make a sense. The janitor of this forum has more experience than me however so follow whatever path they suggest over my thoughts.
  
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Tom Myers
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Re: 35-40 Bullet Candidate
Reply #43 - Aug 3rd, 2016 at 7:20pm
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frnkeore wrote on Aug 1st, 2016 at 1:13pm:
***

I still think that the grooves are to deep, especially with that many. I'd go back to the .329 minor diameter. Did Tom have any rational regarding increasing the groove depth?

*******

Frank


Sgt Dog's correspondence with me indicated that he was concerned with maintaining adequate grease groove volume to maintain fouling control using a blow tube.
The design was drawn to have nearly an equal grease groove volume as his original drawing.

If wiping to control fouling, then indeed, the lube grooves could easily be shallower.
  

Tom Myers
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SgtDog0311
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Re: 35-40 Bullet Candidate
Reply #44 - Aug 3rd, 2016 at 7:58pm
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Hi Tom,  Glad to see you here.   You can help keep me honest:-)

That concern was my recollection too but I wasn't sure if I'd expressed it here or elsewhere.   I know I've pinged you before with the question related to the Snover capacity and lube groove volume in other well-thought-of 40-65 options.    

As for this effort, I tend to throw my rope around so many options that I then have trouble making a final decision.    In this case I think I like the fit of your drawing best but this morning was trying to visualize how I could combine features, (short bore riding section on the nose along with a good fit to the leade angle, and still have the capability to sneak the bullet forward if more velocity were needed.   

Regarding the potential need for that, stability factor is a 2, so that implies my stability at 1267fps velocity is ok.    But having only shot the 250 gr bullet in this chamber with 40gr of OE, I've wondered what velocity I'd actually get with another 25-30gr of bullet weight?  In other words, the velocity I keyed in may not be the velocity I got with the neck filled and similar compression as my apples to oranges comparison.

  

Best Regards,
John
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