Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 2 [3]  Send TopicPrint
Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Shooting "Dirty" with 40-65 or 40-70 Black Powder (Read 19432 times)
Old-Win
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 1827
Location: Minnesota
Joined: Nov 24th, 2005
Re: Shooting "Dirty" with 40-65 or 40-70 Black Powder
Reply #30 - Jul 21st, 2016 at 9:44am
Print Post  
I believe the secret to shooting dirty is using Metford rifling, the proper lube stack and a time or place where the temperatures are moderate with higher humidities.  Joe's experience at Raton rings true.  You just cannot shoot long strings with good accuracy when it's 90+ degrees, bright sun and low humidity.  I shot LR for several years using a blow tube and could see my scores start dropping off after about shot 12 depending on the day.  We were still shooting 15 shot strings then along with 4 or 5 sighters.  Barrel would be so hot, you couldn't hang on to it.  Now, I wipe and no more shots going were they shouldn't unless I do something dumb. Bob

Metford rifling
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Old-Win
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 1827
Location: Minnesota
Joined: Nov 24th, 2005
Re: Shooting "Dirty" with 40-65 or 40-70 Black Powder
Reply #31 - Jul 21st, 2016 at 9:52am
Print Post  
Mick B.
Your friend is very fortunate to have one of the original Rigby's.  There is a guy here in the states that set the 900 yd muzzle loader record this spring with an original that he traced back to one of the later Creedmoor matches that was held here.  I got to look at it and it is a beautiful rifle.  I think this one sold down under a few year ago.  Bob
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
svartkruttgris#369
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 2980
Location: Colorado, Norway, Sweden
Joined: Oct 28th, 2014
Re: Shooting "Dirty" with 40-65 or 40-70 Black Powder
Reply #32 - Jul 21st, 2016 at 5:22pm
Print Post  
Old Win,

Am I correct to understand "Metford Rifling" as rifling that is curved on top instead of "square"? 

Also, I have always understood that this rifling was used with early mantled, "high-velocity" (roughy 2500fps) bullets to achieve more uniform expansion because of less weakening of"gliding-metal mantels. Have probably forgotten whatever I read long ago about its used in BP rifles.

I have a early 1900s German-mde kombi hunting gun with rounded rifling in its 7X57R barrel. Shoots really well for first 2 shots from this thin barrel that is soldered full-length to the shotgun barrel. Only one I have ever seen.

Thanks for interesting post!
Grisen
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Mick B
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 1007
Location: 19 Ian Nicol St watson ACT aus
Joined: Apr 11th, 2013
Re: Shooting "Dirty" with 40-65 or 40-70 Black Powder
Reply #33 - Jul 21st, 2016 at 7:02pm
Print Post  
Grisen
The rifle is a .45 muzzle loader.
MB
The loading information that came with Dougs rifle makes no mention of blow tubing but that doesn't mean they didn't do it.
For almost fifty years before I started shooting BP cartridge rifles I shot percussion and flintlock longrifles. On our range placing your mouth over the muzzle and blowing down the barrel was specifically forbidden for safety reasons, so I assume you meant using some sort of long tube put down the barrel with a flexible tube on one end perhaps. Almost everybody I saw both here and at Friendship wiped their muzzle loaders between shots. As for the use of false muzzles on the Rigby I will have to get back to Doug and ask him about that, perhaps I'm confused and what I saw was just a straight line bullet starter that slipped over the muzzle. As for the legality of using one, I'm uncertain if the rules and regulations in Australia at the time prohibited their use or not.
Mike.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Mick B
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 1007
Location: 19 Ian Nicol St watson ACT aus
Joined: Apr 11th, 2013
Re: Shooting "Dirty" with 40-65 or 40-70 Black Powder
Reply #34 - Jul 22nd, 2016 at 2:36am
Print Post  
MB
I rang my friend Doug who has the Rigby and he advised me of the following.
He has some of the original PP bullets, I was wrong, they are 530 Gr and tapered from the base. He shoots a straight sided swaged bullet paper patched. He is sending me some pictures of a Rigby M/L target rifle cased with accessories, one of which I'm led to believe is a false muzzle. I have no idea whether or not this was allowed in competition. 
As I don't have a clue as to how to send pictures from my computer to the ASSRA site when I have them perhaps you can provide me with an email address that I can post them to and you may be able to put them on the ASSRA site on my behalf, if that's OK with you.
Mike.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
bruce moulds
Senior Forum Member
****
Offline



Posts: 290
Location: the antipodes
Joined: Mar 14th, 2015
Re: Shooting "Dirty" with 40-65 or 40-70 Black Powder
Reply #35 - Jul 22nd, 2016 at 3:34am
Print Post  
metford in his instructions for using his long range muzzle loaders insisted that the shooter should attach the false muzzle to the coat with a cord sufficiently short that the rifle could not be fired with it on the barrel.
metford rifles were all gaintwist, a feature he felt was an advantage in tearing the patch such that it would fall off the bullet instantly as it left the muzzle.
metford rifling came in more than just the segmental rifling with rounded rather than square grooves.
he had no problem with blowing down the barrel if necessary, suggesting that sometimes dry fouling was an issue, but that the lubricated wad was usually enough when correctly fitting to wipe the bore and soften fouling prior to loading the bullet.
of course they had whale oil in those days as a lubricant in the felt wads.
his bullets were hardened with tin and antimony, the intent being to minimize bumpup only enough to take the rifling, but reduce friction in the bore over softer bullets.
interestingly his breech loaders used only a beeswax wad if we are to believe him, and could shoot 50 or more shots accurately dirty.
not sure if this included blowtubing or not.
walsh, also known as Stonehenge, believed that bottleneck cases retained some fouling that might otherwise go into the barrel.
keep safe,
bruce.
  

ventum est amicus meus
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Old-Win
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 1827
Location: Minnesota
Joined: Nov 24th, 2005
Re: Shooting "Dirty" with 40-65 or 40-70 Black Powder
Reply #36 - Jul 22nd, 2016 at 1:06pm
Print Post  
Mick, check your PM's.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Old-Win
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 1827
Location: Minnesota
Joined: Nov 24th, 2005
Re: Shooting "Dirty" with 40-65 or 40-70 Black Powder
Reply #37 - Jul 22nd, 2016 at 1:12pm
Print Post  
Grisen, 
Yes, the chamber cast shown was made in a Deeley & Edge barrel with Metford rifling.  This is known as segmental rifling.  Think of it as the top segment of a circle used for lands rather than like today's traditional Enfield rifling with square corners.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 2 [3] 
Send TopicPrint