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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) -bore diameter pp alloy (Read 12430 times)
40_Rod
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Re: -bore diameter pp alloy
Reply #15 - Jul 4th, 2016 at 10:18am
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I avoid Antimony because it makes alloys particularly grainy and crumbly. Also it goes through a slushy stage. If you have a bullet with a long spitzer you can drop it and gravity will make the nose sag to the bottom. 
Try crushing a bullet made of lino in a vise then do one with Lead / Tin alloy. The Lino will crumble and fissure the Lead / Tin will just deform; It’s about the ductility of the alloy. Wheel weights is so dodgy these days you don’t have any idea what’s it them.

40 Rod
  
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bruce moulds
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Re: -bore diameter pp alloy
Reply #16 - Jul 9th, 2016 at 6:48pm
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12:1 shot 5 points higher than 16:1 at 800 meters yesterday.
first 2 sighters just over the top of the icfra target.
while this is still in the realms of atmospheric issues, the trend seems to be that 12:1 has less drop.
keep safe,
bruce.
  

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Schuetzenmiester
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Re: -bore diameter pp alloy
Reply #17 - Jul 9th, 2016 at 7:24pm
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bruce moulds wrote on Jul 9th, 2016 at 6:48pm:
12:1 shot 5 points higher than 16:1 at 800 meters yesterday.
first 2 sighters just over the top of the icfra target.
while this is still in the realms of atmospheric issues, the trend seems to be that 12:1 has less drop.
keep safe,
bruce.


How many shots? 10?
  

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bruce moulds
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Re: -bore diameter pp alloy
Reply #18 - Jul 9th, 2016 at 7:35pm
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10 to count, then 10 to count again.
we are allowed 2 convertible sighters per string.
conditions requires 6 to 9 points windage adjustments, so cut both sighters the second time around also due to low scores.
the odg had no sighters, so we must have a lot of respect for them!
keep safe,
bruce.
  

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bruce moulds
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Re: -bore diameter pp alloy
Reply #19 - Jul 16th, 2016 at 7:37am
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fired at 400 neters today with no dirt diggers.
that is now about 66 shots at various ranges with no dirt diggers, so it looks a pretty safe bet that this alloy  will take the rifling when used for patched to bore diameter bullets.
old dead guys reported using 11:1 and 13:1, and factories loaded 12:1.
no reports of anything softer. could there be a reason for this?
keep safe,
bruce.

  

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gunlaker
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Re: -bore diameter pp alloy
Reply #20 - Jul 16th, 2016 at 9:32am
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That's interesting stuff Bruce.  All of the information in Sellers book indicates hard alloys like this for the Creedmoor shooters.  I will have to re-read Perry's book to see what he said on the subject as it's more likely to be relevant than what's in Sellers. 

I think that the old bullets were not quite as pointy as what we shoot today as well.  When I shot with Orville in Phoenix this spring he gave me a bullet that he says is a very close copy of the original Sharps long range bullet and it's certainly less slender in the nose than most of the elliptical and money bullets being used today.

Chris.
  
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Schuetzenmiester
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Re: -bore diameter pp alloy
Reply #21 - Jul 16th, 2016 at 12:30pm
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Doc Gunn spent years analyzing LR bullets and ballistics.  He said the ODG's bullets that are similar to the Postell  could not be improved. They developed the optimum.  Sort of makes you wonder how they did that with their relatively limited resources, eh?
  

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gunlaker
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Re: -bore diameter pp alloy
Reply #22 - Jul 16th, 2016 at 3:54pm
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I wonder if he was correct?  I can't remember seeing a Postel bullet in the equipment list for a top long range shooter for a long time.  Nowadays it's almost all Buffalo Arms Money bullets and a few people shooting bullets with an elliptical profile.   

Sometimes there is an element of fashion in the shooting sports though Smiley

I do know that the previously popular "Creedmoor" nosed bullets are less good than the modern ones for LR.  Those tend to top out with BC's well under 0.5.   

Chris.
  
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Schuetzenmiester
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Re: -bore diameter pp alloy
Reply #23 - Jul 16th, 2016 at 5:21pm
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gunlaker wrote on Jul 16th, 2016 at 3:54pm:
I wonder if he was correct?  I can't remember seeing a Postel bullet in the equipment list for a top long range shooter for a long time.  Nowadays it's almost all Buffalo Arms Money bullets and a few people shooting bullets with an elliptical profile.  



Chris.

I just used that name because I can't remember any of the nomenclature from the correspondence 20 years ago.   The noses were very similar as opposed to a round nose. 

Seems like after NEI made my mold, added to their catalog selection, and Paul Matthews mentioned it a time or 2 in his articles, everybody and their brother designed a bullet and it was listed with their name.  Mine was list by number only, saving any claim to fame or embarrassment as the case may be  Cheesy
  

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Re: -bore diameter pp alloy
Reply #24 - Jul 17th, 2016 at 11:50am
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The Money bullet has a fancy name, but it's really just a tangent ogive design with a small hemispherical tip, plus they often have smaller grease grooves for less drag.  Dan's original name for the bullet was basically that description Smiley

I know that Dan corresponded with Dr. Gunn regarding bullet designs and other things.  I wonder if they talked about that design?  From what I've heard, it's not too different from some of the very early target bullets.

Chris.




  
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Re: -bore diameter pp alloy
Reply #25 - Jul 18th, 2016 at 11:07am
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The Metford bullet is very similar to the money bullet. There is a picture in "Modern Sportsman's Gun & Rifle" Volume II page 501. This is from 1884.
  
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bruce moulds
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Re: -bore diameter pp alloy
Reply #26 - Jul 18th, 2016 at 3:58pm
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this book can be read online free .
look up archive.org, thr look for the title.
author is walsh j h.
check different formats for ease of reading.
keep safe,
bruce.
  

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Re: -bore diameter pp alloy
Reply #27 - Jul 18th, 2016 at 5:59pm
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Oh, talking about antimony for hardening a bullet.
It is noted that (some of) the ODG's added Mercury  to harden the bullets..... Reminds me of amalgam tooth fillings...
"I don't think so, I will stick to antimony and tin added to lead
beltfed/arnie
  
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Re: -bore diameter pp alloy
Reply #28 - Jul 18th, 2016 at 6:25pm
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I've wondered about that Mercury in bullets. The stuff boils at a low temp, so wouldn't it just disappear from the pot?
Maybe whoever started that story misidentified what was in there? 
I'm from an area where mining used Mercury a lot in my youth, and have seen retorts used in assay and separation operations in gold mines. Bunsen burner would cook it away to a mist and up the tube to condense and drop into a beaker as fluid once more
  
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Re: -bore diameter pp alloy
Reply #29 - Jul 18th, 2016 at 9:47pm
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Yup, boils off at casting temp  Cheesy
  

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