Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 [2]  Send TopicPrint
Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Stevens Favorite in .22 Short (Read 13767 times)
John Boy
Ex Member


Re: Stevens Favorite in .22 Short
Reply #15 - Mar 20th, 2016 at 11:26am
Print Post  
(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links);

OK, 10 hours to end of auction but: 
* The rifle is an 1894
* But the 1894's do not have a collar at the end of the stub that fits up at the front of the action!
* The 2 line stamp (not a roll stamp) is incorrect

Ergo, IMO - the barrel is not original but for $170 high bid - it's a shooter and doesn't break the bank
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
slumlord44
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 2850
Location: Lebanon, Illinois 62254
Joined: Dec 21st, 2007
Re: Stevens Favorite in .22 Short
Reply #16 - Mar 20th, 2016 at 1:36pm
Print Post  
According to an Americian Rifleman Dope Bag article that I have the barrel nut used to keep the action tight was patented in 1904 and used on Favorites about that time. This is in the '94 time frame. I have a '94 in .25 Stevens with the lock ring. To my knowledge it was not used very long. I have not seen large numbers  of them. The barrel nut doesn't concern me as much as the 2 line logo and the caliber marking. I'm not saying that the barrel nut could not be non factory though. A part of me wants to buy it just to try to figure out what it is. I have a Favorite with what I think is a factory checkered stock for that reason. I am pretty sure it's factory after getting it but there's no way to prove it for sure. Another reference that I have dates the barrel shank around 1907 which supports the Rifleman article.
« Last Edit: Mar 20th, 2016 at 1:44pm by slumlord44 »  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
BP
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 8039
Location: Westside
Joined: Aug 27th, 2006
Re: Stevens Favorite in .22 Short
Reply #17 - Mar 20th, 2016 at 5:52pm
Print Post  
Quote:

...
* But the 1894's do not have a collar at the end of the stub that fits up at the front of the action!
...

John Boy,
Take a close look in Single Shot Rifles and Actions by Frank de Haas.

Slumlord,
You sure your 22 "WRF" shouldn't be marked 22-7  ?
  

There are three kinds of men: The ones that learn by reading, the few who learn by observation, and the rest who have to pee on the electric fence and find out for themselves.
Proud Noodlehead
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
John Boy
Ex Member


Re: Stevens Favorite in .22 Short
Reply #18 - Mar 20th, 2016 at 7:06pm
Print Post  
Quote:
Take a close look in Single Shot Rifles and Actions by Frank de Haas.
I did ... didn't see a collar
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
BP
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 8039
Location: Westside
Joined: Aug 27th, 2006
Re: Stevens Favorite in .22 Short
Reply #19 - Mar 20th, 2016 at 7:09pm
Print Post  
Quote:
Quote:
Take a close look in Single Shot Rifles and Actions by Frank de Haas.
I did ... didn't see a collar

You want page numbers?     Wink
  

There are three kinds of men: The ones that learn by reading, the few who learn by observation, and the rest who have to pee on the electric fence and find out for themselves.
Proud Noodlehead
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
slumlord44
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 2850
Location: Lebanon, Illinois 62254
Joined: Dec 21st, 2007
Re: Stevens Favorite in .22 Short
Reply #20 - Mar 20th, 2016 at 8:17pm
Print Post  
BP, I'm not sure how it should be marked but that's the way mine is marked.  My Stevens 418 Walnut Hill is also marked .22-WRF. Page 110 shows the collar.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
BP
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 8039
Location: Westside
Joined: Aug 27th, 2006
Re: Stevens Favorite in .22 Short
Reply #21 - Mar 20th, 2016 at 9:22pm
Print Post  
Slumlord,

Glad to see you found the picture of the 94' Favorite with the collar on page 110.
There's also some text about it on page 107 with a drawing (that has a D in the upper corner) at the bottom-center of the page.
One more note about the collar... take a look at the drawing at the bottom of page 332. It shows that the threaded section of the barrel that the collar rotates on has a dimension length of 0.175", so your collar (in order to rotate forward and let the barrel shift back toward the breech-block to get rid of lever-play) should have a thickness that allows a few turns on that 0.175" thread length.

The reason I ask about your 22-WRF stamping is that I have seen the 22-7 caliber marking on some 94' Favorite barrels which had 5 flats cut to look like an octagon barrel, but upon removing the forearm, you saw that Stevens left that part of the barrel that was hidden by the wood as rough-turned round to cut costs.

« Last Edit: Mar 20th, 2016 at 9:37pm by BP »  

There are three kinds of men: The ones that learn by reading, the few who learn by observation, and the rest who have to pee on the electric fence and find out for themselves.
Proud Noodlehead
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
John Boy
Ex Member


Re: Stevens Favorite in .22 Short
Reply #22 - Mar 20th, 2016 at 9:38pm
Print Post  
Quote:
You want page numbers?
Well, I'll be ... if I hadn't stopped at pg 109 and then turned the page to 110 - there it is!  Embarrassed 
$200 to stevensnut for the rifle.  Now how many shorts are in his inventory because they are few far between for sale - the same for 22 Longs
« Last Edit: Mar 20th, 2016 at 9:44pm by »  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
slumlord44
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 2850
Location: Lebanon, Illinois 62254
Joined: Dec 21st, 2007
Re: Stevens Favorite in .22 Short
Reply #23 - Mar 20th, 2016 at 10:14pm
Print Post  
I have a sizeable supply of various .22 Short ammo. Also several .22 Short chambered guns to shoot it in. It was worth $200 to me to solve the puzzle. I love a puzzle. When I get the gun and IF I can figure out what it actually is I will post the info here. One of the reasons I love this hobby is interesting things like this. Just to clarify, to me, these discussions are not about who is right or wrong, but about learning as much as I can about what is correct and not correct about these great old guns. If they could talk, it would make this a lot easier but much less fun. By the way, I'm Stevensnut over there. They didn't like Slumlord44 for some reason.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Schuetzenmiester
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 6707
Location: Cool Wet Side of WA
Joined: Apr 27th, 2008
Re: Stevens Favorite in .22 Short
Reply #24 - Mar 20th, 2016 at 11:10pm
Print Post  
slumlord44 wrote on Mar 20th, 2016 at 10:14pm:
By the way, I'm Stevensnut over there. They didn't like Slumlord44 for some reason.

Maybe they are all renters Wink
  

"some old things are lovely, warm still with life ... of the forgotten men who made them." - D.H. Lawrence
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
John Boy
Ex Member


Re: Stevens Favorite in .22 Short
Reply #25 - Mar 21st, 2016 at 7:18am
Print Post  
Quote:
When I get the gun and IF I can figure out what it actually is I will post the info here.
Enjoy the new rifle and looking forward to reading about it here on the forum.  It sure has been a topic of discussion!
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
John Boy
Ex Member


Re: Stevens Favorite in .22 Short
Reply #26 - Mar 22nd, 2016 at 10:27am
Print Post  
Mike - Interested in a adjustable nut 22LR barrel to go with the Short?
(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
slumlord44
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 2850
Location: Lebanon, Illinois 62254
Joined: Dec 21st, 2007
Re: Stevens Favorite in .22 Short
Reply #27 - Mar 30th, 2016 at 10:34pm
Print Post  
The rifle came in today. The barrel has been re blued which is no surprise . I'm  almost certain that it is a Stevens factory barrel.  Both the round and hex part of the barrel are about .04 thinner than my other Favorite with the headspace adjusting nut. That's not enough to get rid of the original barrel markings if it has been re stamped. There is nothing that I can see that it was ever marked differently. The barrel is 20". Most were 22" with 24" and 26" available as an option. They did use a 20" barrel on the Bicycle Rifle. The bore is pristine. There is no indication that it has been re lined. It is chambered for .22 Short and a Long Rifle will not chamber. I have several .22 Short marked Stevens that will chamber a long rifle. The barrel adjusting nut is slightly different than the one on my other rifle. On my other one where the barrel nut buts against the front of the barrel it is a flat flush fit. On the .22 Short there is a short tapered section just before the back of the barrel where the adjusting nut butts against the front of the barrel. The frame has also been re finished and not as good condition as the barrel. Both tangs have a weld repair. The wood has been nicely refinished and the butt plate is a decent original. Gun fires and extracts fine. The barrel markings and wording look right to me on one hand but on the other hand something looks off. The fact that the bore is pristine doesn't go with the fact that the barrel has been re blued and the lack of any sign of old markings makes me wonder if it has been re stamped or not. If it has been re stamped they did a neat job.  The .04 difference is not enough to remove all the markings. The only way I figure the barrel could have been made up would have been to have machined the barrel enough to remove the markings and re stamp them. The barrel could have been re lined and the liner welded and filed down before re bluing. That's a lot of trouble to go to on a rough frame that's had the tangs welded. They did have a 20" barrel and they did offer the .22 Short chambering so it could be authentic. The barrel markings are definitely questionable though. For now I plan to keep it and shoot it and see if I can find other guns with the adjustment nut to compare it to. I would also love to see pictures of a real .22 Short marked barrel to compare it to. I just  love a puzzle.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
coljimmy
Senior Forum Member
****
Offline



Posts: 283
Joined: Nov 10th, 2012
Re: Stevens Favorite in .22 Short
Reply #28 - Mar 31st, 2016 at 5:18pm
Print Post  
After having observed and tabled over 150 favorites over the last year where the "serial numbers" were visible or described, mostly pictured in auctions but admittedly only a few in handling them, I have found a few things that show a slow evolvement over the years of production.  I can say that all observed '94 favorites were 22" barrels (most 1915 are 24"), the barrel tightening nut types are fairly early, so I view the article attributing them to 1904 as suspicious.
All observed were stamped J. Stevens A. & T. Co., the apparently earliest bracketed with a boxed x and later without the boxed x on the top rear flat, as were all of the barrel nut ones.  Then most of the '94's had the stamp on the right top flat, then the last ones, in front of the rear sight on the top flat.  None had "stamps" like the one in question.  I also have been looking for a 22 other than long rifle, but they were all marked just 22 RF, or 32, 25, except for about two 22 shot (Model 20) and one in 32 shot.  All observed 1915 models had about 24" barrels, either full octagon or round.   
Impression:  Replacement barrel and barrel tightening nut on the gun in question.
Hope to get this information together soon.
James
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
slumlord44
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 2850
Location: Lebanon, Illinois 62254
Joined: Dec 21st, 2007
Re: Stevens Favorite in .22 Short
Reply #29 - Mar 31st, 2016 at 10:46pm
Print Post  
I appreciate your input. No way will I dispute your conclusion. The barrel would have had to be turned down from something else or made up from a blank. I still think it unlikely that someone would go through all that to build a .22 short rifle on an action that was that rough. That being said, I have done dumber things. As to the 20" barrel, it was definitely in the early catalogs as a Bicycle Rifle. Don't remember the model # at the moment. They came with a case designed to hang on the frame of your bicycle. Never seen one. Would love to have one with the case. Another thing I will do is check the rate of twist. The .22 Short guns had a different rate of twist. If it has the .22 Short rate of twist that would add to the puzzle. The .22 Short chambering was definitely in the catalogs. That doesn't mean they made many, or even that they made any. The .22 WRF is another scarce one that is listed only for a year or two but I do have one of those and it is marked .22 WRF contrary to what some have said. Doesn't mean they didn't use different markings. As to serial #s, my understanding is that they are not necessarily in any particular order or actually mean anything. Makes it interesting for us collectors today.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 [2] 
Send TopicPrint