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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Sharps 45 2 4/10 (Read 16251 times)
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Re: Sharps 45 2 4/10
Reply #15 - Mar 17th, 2016 at 4:24pm
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What reloading tools do you have for loading BP, Curtis?

       Joe.
  

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Re: Sharps 45 2 4/10
Reply #16 - Mar 18th, 2016 at 10:08am
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I am located in West Central Missouri.
Currently my loading tools are a RCBS Rockchucker and Lyman 3 die set for the 45 2 4/10 (45-90). 

My previous experience loading BP cartridges was a rolling block with a Numrich Arms Buffalo Hunter barrel. Those were hit and miss, but mine was a good one. Accuracy was so good I had it D&T'd and put a Unertl on it. It was an honest 1/2-3/4 gun at 100yds.
My load at the time was 70gr Dupont (I still have some) FFG and a 405gr cast bullet. I didn't have any problems loading those. The 45-90 has been a different story. Of course the chamber is probably a little more precise and I am trying to use a bigger bullet.
I looked into a compression plug for my Lyman dies. Buffalo makes one for $20.00 plus TT&L, so I will probably go that route when I have the money.

I have started getting into long range shooting with modern guns and have some places I can get out to 1000-1200yds but they are more geared to modern rifle comps. At those places it would be more of a fun side thing to let others shoot.

I would really like to hook up with some BPCR guys in my area.
  

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nuclearcricket
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Re: Sharps 45 2 4/10
Reply #17 - Mar 18th, 2016 at 10:44am
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I am thinking but am not positive that the compression plug should fit your expander die. You definitely do now want to try to compress your powder more than just a few thousandths of an inch with your bullet. To do otherwise will cause your bullet to swell and be difficult to impossible to chamber. If you don't find BP shooters on here in your area, take a look at (You need to Login or Register to view media files and links). My guess is that there is a good chance you will find someone close to you on there. The guys over there will give you lots of help and advice on getting your Sharps up and running.
Sam
  
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Re: Sharps 45 2 4/10
Reply #18 - Mar 18th, 2016 at 10:53am
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Thanks Sam,
I have learned a lot from this thread already.
My problem has been with crushing cases. It has been a while, but I don't think I am running a crimp. I have tried settling the powder by vibrating and/or tapping the base of the case on the top of the bench.
  

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Re: Sharps 45 2 4/10
Reply #19 - Mar 18th, 2016 at 11:23am
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Crushing cases is not a good thing especially with the price you have to pay for those. If your chamber is tight enough that you can slip a lubed bullet into the case and it will not fall out when you turn it upside down then I would not size your cases at all. I have a friend that runs his that way. Using something to vibrate the case to settle the powder is a good way to start. In doing it that way I would use enough powder that when you add your wad and bullet everything ends up at about the right length with a finger seated bullet, try that and see how it shoots. That will give you something to play with while you wait on a compression plug. 
Sam
  
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Re: Sharps 45 2 4/10
Reply #20 - Mar 18th, 2016 at 11:28am
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I keep hearing about wads, but is it really necessary to run them?
  

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Re: Sharps 45 2 4/10
Reply #21 - Mar 19th, 2016 at 6:04pm
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In some circles it is kind of open for discussion but all in all the general concussions is that the wad of a proper size will protect the base of the bullet from damage from both powder grains and hot gasses. A good wad to start with is a Walters Wad. They are readily available and not expensive. Another good choice is LDPE, those are also not that expensive and available in the proper size from Buffalo Arms. I like to place a wax paper wad between my bullet base and the thicker wad. This is to insure that the wad does not stick to the base of the bullet and cause it to wonder off course. The wax paper is thin and light enough to have little to no effect if it sticks to the bullet base.
Sam
  
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Re: Sharps 45 2 4/10
Reply #22 - Mar 21st, 2016 at 9:10am
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How about the use of wafer of lube as opposed to a wad?
  

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Re: Sharps 45 2 4/10
Reply #23 - Apr 14th, 2016 at 10:46am
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Ok, so I just got my compression stem from Buffalo Arms.

I know this has been discussed, but honestly I don't have time for a search.
My guess is a starting point to set the stem is to determine where the base of the bullet will end up in the case (with or without a wad) and set the die to compress to that point?

I appreciate the help so far guys. This was one of my all time dream guns, and I have had it just sitting in the safe for several years
  

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Re: Sharps 45 2 4/10
Reply #24 - Apr 14th, 2016 at 11:12am
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Yes your right, your compression stem should compress to the depth of the seated bullet. The easiest way to determine the depth is to take a loaded round and measure the overall length, then subtract the length of the bullet and then the length of the case. You will end up with a negative number but that is the depth that you want to compress to. Some people compress the powder and some compress the powder with a wad on top, if you compress without the wad, add the thickness of the wad to your compression depth. 
If you have a separate compression die your all set, if your using a die that you have to remove the compression stem and use the die for something else, what I do is measure the overall length of the die and stem with the stem adjusted to the proper depth and this will give you a number to use to reset the stem when you put it back in.
Now that you are able to compress your load separately you should just feel your bullet bottom out if seating it with a die and things should chamber and work a lot better for you.
Sam
  
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Re: Sharps 45 2 4/10
Reply #25 - Apr 14th, 2016 at 11:43am
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nuclearcricket wrote on Apr 14th, 2016 at 11:12am:
Yes your right, your compression stem should compress to the depth of the seated bullet. The easiest way to determine the depth is to take a loaded round and measure the overall length, then subtract the length of the bullet and then the length of the case. You will end up with a negative number but that is the depth that you want to compress to. Some people compress the powder and some compress the powder with a wad on top, if you compress without the wad, add the thickness of the wad to your compression depth. 
If you have a separate compression die your all set, if your using a die that you have to remove the compression stem and use the die for something else, what I do is measure the overall length of the die and stem with the stem adjusted to the proper depth and this will give you a number to use to reset the stem when you put it back in.
Now that you are able to compress your load separately you should just feel your bullet bottom out if seating it with a die and things should chamber and work a lot better for you.
Sam


Thanks Sam. The measuring and subtracting seems a little more confusing than what it probably is, but I'll figure it out. I was just going to mark a case at where the base will end up.
As far as the stem goes, it has a collar on it that I can lock in place once I get the adjustment figured out. I also have a set of 45-70 dies I might use for compression. When I load modern stuff I always make a dummy round with whatever bullets I might be using. With a bolt action I will set the bullet just enough into the neck to hold it, then chamber it in the rifle and let the lands seat the bullet the rest of the way. That gives me my max OAL to the ogive. I then use that to set my seating die. I use a micrometer die and I will record how many .001 I seat further off the lands. It is a little harder with a Sharps, but trial and error will prevail.
  

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Re: Sharps 45 2 4/10
Reply #26 - Apr 19th, 2016 at 11:45am
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Ok on the subject of wads. Buffalo has poly and vegetable wads of varying thickness. How does one determine the proper thickness? Is the preference poly or veggie? A guy at Sharps told me he uses milk cartons (wax cardboard).
  

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Re: Sharps 45 2 4/10
Reply #27 - Apr 20th, 2016 at 6:12am
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I know my math formula sounds a bit funky but think of it this way, you want to know the depth of a hole. That depth is a negativ, it is below the surface, the surface being zero, positive being above zero and negative being below. 
For my 45-70, the loaded over all length is 2.915, now I subtract the case length of   2.1, and that gives me, .815, from that I subtract the length of the bullet, 1.43, that gives the measurement of how far that bullet sets into the case, -.615. That is how far the bullet sets down inside the case. So for me I want to place a wad on top of my powder charge and compress everything to a depth of about .615" or perhaps a touch less. I figure if I compress to about .613" and the bullet does the last .002" I am guaranteed no air space.
I hope this helps to clear up the math thing.
Sam
  
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Re: Sharps 45 2 4/10
Reply #28 - Apr 20th, 2016 at 7:43am
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Dan Theodore (may he RIP) preferred LDPE wads of 0.060" thickness, but many top shooters use fiber. Both work well. A newspaper wad between your bullet and the the wad will prevent the wad from sticking to your bullet. Just wipe the base of the bullet on a paper-towell to get the lube off before loading. 

From western MO the nearest two ranges are likely Tappan Hill, which is north of Salina, KS (will be shooting their matches the last weekend of May) and Effingham, IL. IIRC, there are matches at the MO or St. Louis Benchrest Club (am not sure of the correct name) and definitely at the Tulsa and OKC clubs. Check their websites for dates. These are all BPCR matches. 

For BPTR you will likely have to go further afield. Byers in CO, Lodi in WI, Greyling in MI, Oak Ridge in TN are the ones that are likely the nearest to you. And, of course, Raton, NM.
« Last Edit: Apr 20th, 2016 at 5:31pm by SSShooter »  

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Re: Sharps 45 2 4/10
Reply #29 - Apr 20th, 2016 at 9:06am
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Thanks Sam, that makes sense now.

Glenn,
I have heard of the range in Tulsa, which is not very far from me...about 3 hours. Salina is possible, but further. There IS a pretty good bike bar in Salina though Smiley
  

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