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boats
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Data from old loading manuals
Feb 22nd, 2016 at 4:34pm
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Something I do often is consult old loading manuals. Make a table with recommended possible and compare. It’s useful to flush out loads that are excessive and find a good starting point.  Few cautions, obsolete powders and current formulations of powders available may be different than  old lots.  As a rough rule of thumb Unique is Unique,  4759 was formulated to replace SR # 80 and 4227 was formulated to replace SR # 75.  I have all three powders available in the current versions

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Some safety margin in these loads as the 25/20 repeater was loaded in standard velocity about 1325 FPS and high velocity versions, I only charted the standard loading. Threw in some “internet” loads too, which give even more caution and need to be examined before loading.

Pardon the size can't figure out how to scale it

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Re: Data from old loading manuals
Reply #1 - Feb 22nd, 2016 at 5:29pm
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Boats,

I like to use that method too.
Have a lot of the old Ideal/Lyman manuals with few gaps, and the bullet and powder suppliers manuals, plus additional references.
Like to start a cartridge sheet like you posted, and then list data from the different sources chronologically - which makes errors in a particular reference release stand out real fast, so I can then make a precautionary highlight on the sheet.
Also interesting to tract how some old standard powders (still in production) for particular cartridges and loadings gained and lost favor over time to newer introductions through the years.
32-20 is also an interesting cartridge to follow, having been available in both rifles and revolvers, and seeing the load data diverge and follow different paths as Hi-Vel loads were introduced for rifles, while the 32-20 revolver loads start to disappear as that chambering in revolvers, and then some of the revolver models themselves were phased out.
  

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calledflyer
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Re: Data from old loading manuals
Reply #2 - Feb 22nd, 2016 at 6:54pm
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Some of my old manuals also get combed. I don't make charts, but just get a heap of info and make a choice. 
If I discover an old manual or book that has info that is not advisable (now, or even then in some cases) I write a note on that page about it. Don't care if it makes them less collectible. Better to save my ass, and perhaps the next fellow's than to make a dollar on the bad info.
Boats, I actually have some of the old powders in pistol grades. 
Never tempted to load them. They're collectible.  Roll Eyes
  
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Re: Data from old loading manuals
Reply #3 - Feb 22nd, 2016 at 9:50pm
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Thanks for the sizing

Sometimes I wonder when a recommended load repeats, could it be one author saw it and inserted the data into his manual ?  That 6.5 4227 6.5 SR # 75 load at about 1350 FPS is mentioned in several places including two Internet forums 

Although it seems to be the one I will end up with. Won't know for sure until I get a tang sight on the gun. Open barrel sight it's just a guess how it's shooting. My guess is it's pretty good. Will see.

Boats
  
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Marlene
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Re: Data from old loading manuals
Reply #4 - Feb 23rd, 2016 at 10:30am
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I didn't know about the #75 and #80 equivalences. That's a great piece of info! Now a bunch of my old books are even more useful to me  Smiley
  
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Re: Data from old loading manuals
Reply #5 - Feb 23rd, 2016 at 3:30pm
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Marlene, those "equivilant" quips are more about being suitable for something, not exactly measure for measure. While giving a clue about what calibers it may be good in, you still need to exercise caution when interpolating the data for any powder. And, that doesn't even account for the changes from then till now. Just be careful, please.
  
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Re: Data from old loading manuals
Reply #6 - Feb 23rd, 2016 at 3:47pm
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Indeed. Thanks for the warning, but yes, I meant that now I have a better idea of what those powders were like. I did not mean that I or anyone should treat them as interchangeable for usable load data. 

Two eyes, ten fingers, ten toes, and I like it that way.
  
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Re: Data from old loading manuals
Reply #7 - Feb 23rd, 2016 at 9:05pm
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Way back before the Internet, Ken Walters of Handloader magazine would answer questions by letter for a small fee. 5 dollars I think. He sent me a nice reply about SR # 80 "equlivent to" 4759.  Included the appropriate cautions about starting low and working up. 

My 25/20 work about 1300 fps is considerably under the High Speed loading for the catrtridge.  Still caution is good and few  tested so far started well under the old manuals data.

Have to look for that letter & post a copy.

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Re: Data from old loading manuals
Reply #8 - Feb 23rd, 2016 at 10:48pm
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Boats, you are lucky to  have been informed by Ken Waters. I,on the other hand have a small sheaf of letters from Elmer Keith! If I think back on it, I'm lucky to have the fingers, toes and eyes that Marlene spoke of. Ah..my youth!
Glad I got conservative somewhere along the line after silhouette pistol shooting.
  
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Re: Data from old loading manuals
Reply #9 - Feb 24th, 2016 at 7:11am
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Well said !   For exciting loads look at Ackleys manuals, it's a wonder some of those rifles stayed together.

Boars
  
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marlinguy
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Re: Data from old loading manuals
Reply #10 - Feb 24th, 2016 at 9:43am
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I have a number of old Lyman and Ideal loading manuals, and they certainly have some great info. But they also have some glaring errors that are bad enough to blow up guns! I have notes written by a load here or there where the data in the old manual is 50% or more than a safe max load. Need to be sure to double check all data; old or new.
  

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Re: Data from old loading manuals
Reply #11 - Feb 24th, 2016 at 10:35am
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Vall, when I first started shooting cast bullets I bought an old copy of the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook and a new can of Reloder7. i worked up a load based on accuracy and kept charges within a grain of max.  I later bought a chronograph and I found I was getting max velocity on the lowest powder charge!

I wrote Alliant and was told that my velocities were what they would expect given the powder charge and bullet weight.

Chris.
  
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Re: Data from old loading manuals
Reply #12 - Feb 24th, 2016 at 12:40pm
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Du Pont #1 Was replaced by #80 that was replaced by 4759.

40 Rod
  
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Re: Data from old loading manuals
Reply #13 - Feb 24th, 2016 at 2:10pm
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40 Rod, you point out something that is worth discussion. ALL powders, sooner or later will be replaced by something else. Replaced isn't what we think of when we change a stock screw for another one when we bugger it up. The replacement is more often in the vein of "improvement" in some corporate views. Profit is likely to be among the so-called improvements. Lately, 4759 has been removed from the list of available powders. The supposed successors aren't at all the same in actual use. The new  powders of earlier time weren't all well received by users. Ned Roberts bemoans the loss of some of the old ones. Others did the same. And, the wheel goes around one more time.
  
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marlinguy
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Re: Data from old loading manuals
Reply #14 - Feb 24th, 2016 at 8:28pm
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gunlaker wrote on Feb 24th, 2016 at 10:35am:
Vall, when I first started shooting cast bullets I bought an old copy of the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook and a new can of Reloder7. i worked up a load based on accuracy and kept charges within a grain of max.  I later bought a chronograph and I found I was getting max velocity on the lowest powder charge!

I wrote Alliant and was told that my velocities were what they would expect given the powder charge and bullet weight.

Chris.


Chris,
I have very old Ideal manuals from the 1950's, which I love for their data that most newer manuals don't carry. Especially the cast bullet loads for various rifle calibers!
But I occasionally see a load that jumps out at me, and after a bit of investigation, and comparing later Ideal manuals, I figure out they made a mistake, and caught it the next year.
  

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