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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Danish RB (Read 17100 times)
dohrmc
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Danish RB
Feb 18th, 2016 at 8:25pm
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Tough first post, nice Danish RB, but it seems I cannot post a picture of it. 
Excellent shape, hope to get it shooting, but right now would settle for posting a picture of it.
  
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chawk
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Re: Danish RB
Reply #1 - Feb 18th, 2016 at 8:30pm
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try now.  I think you need one post to be able to post pics.
  
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dohrmc
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Re: Danish RB
Reply #2 - Feb 18th, 2016 at 8:36pm
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Ok, the picture comes out very messed up- I have resized them all.
I will reply to this post with another attempt.
  
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dohrmc
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Re: Danish RB
Reply #3 - Feb 18th, 2016 at 8:39pm
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No go, it takes all comments , distorts them, and slaps an enormous photo over everything.
Oh well. Nothing in help section.

Will try photobucket route.
« Last Edit: Feb 18th, 2016 at 8:44pm by »  
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dohrmc
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Re: Danish RB
Reply #4 - Feb 18th, 2016 at 8:43pm
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dohrmc
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Re: Danish RB
Reply #5 - Feb 18th, 2016 at 8:44pm
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Went to photobucket
  
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Water Bug
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Re: Danish RB
Reply #6 - Feb 19th, 2016 at 7:51am
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Beautiful rifle,  what is the question?  What caliber is it? or what diameter is the bore?   Can you do a chamber cast?  WB
  
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Fred Boulton
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Re: Danish RB
Reply #7 - Feb 19th, 2016 at 8:11am
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I had one of these some years ago. I fully annealed 45/70 brass and fire-formed it to the chamber. After that, I neck sized only. It was used in the club black powder cartridge off-hand competition and won it several times, but I always had difficulty with the extreme drop on the stock and eventually sold it. As always when you sell something good, I wish I still had it now!
  
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dohrmc
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Re: Danish RB
Reply #8 - Feb 19th, 2016 at 9:33am
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It is 11.7x???.  I will be making a chamber cast to determine what I need to make up some ammo of the correct length.  I have already slugged the barrel.
I have looked down that barrel since I was about 8 yrs old and it is time to get it shooting.
I can easily rationalize reloading, just have not done it before. I assume used equipment in good condition is fine.
I have shot a lot using my flintlock, so I am familiar with black powder, just not knowledgeable about making cartridges. I do have Nonte's Cartridge Conversion book, and will be using that info for starters.
He suggests fire forming 45-70 brass. Any pitfalls to look out for?
  
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Re: Danish RB
Reply #9 - Feb 19th, 2016 at 10:20am
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I have one too. Previous owner could not get it to shoot accurate. Twist on mine is twenty nine inches. To slow to stabilize heavy bullets. Shoots short bullets excellent. I used 45-70 brass. Don't remember if I trimmed it. Think I must have.  Won one musket match with it, only match I ever used it for. Shot a perfect 50 on the old 5V target. Rifle has a extra heavy trigger pull.

Base size of the 45-70 cases are a bit small for my rifle. Sits in the gun rack. Shot straight BP in mine. Have about fifty original cases but take Berdan primers. 

             Joe.
« Last Edit: Feb 20th, 2016 at 9:46pm by westerner »  

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dohrmc
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Re: Danish RB
Reply #10 - Feb 19th, 2016 at 1:46pm
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Hmmmm, I have made lots of small coil springs as actuators for my model airplanes. Making a flat spring should not be too tough, except for the fiddling required to get it right.
  
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marlinguy
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Re: Danish RB
Reply #11 - Feb 19th, 2016 at 6:59pm
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Hmmmm, I have made lots of small coil springs as actuators for my model airplanes. Making a flat spring should not be too tough, except for the fiddling required to get it right.


Making a flat spring would be repeating what your Roller has now. The piano wire spring shown gives a much nicer, and lighter trigger pull.
  

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JS47
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Re: Danish RB
Reply #12 - Feb 19th, 2016 at 11:12pm
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I have a friend who has a Danish in as new condition.  The fool won't sell it to me though.  I loaded some PP rounds for it using 45-70 brass with the size die backed way out. After fire forming the brass was swelled out at the base but left unsized, other than the neck, it fit the chamber and functioned fine.

JS
  
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Singleshotlover
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Re: Danish RB
Reply #13 - Feb 20th, 2016 at 12:31am
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Might be my old eyes but your pic has led me to ask this question.  In looking at the breech block just where the hammer sits when fired is that a crack in the block?. See sort of a black line just above the hammer. Frank
  

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dohrmc
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Re: Danish RB
Reply #14 - Feb 20th, 2016 at 10:29am
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No, there are no cracks. Actually, the bore, action, and chamber look like it was hardly ever used. The bore looks new.
I took it to my trusted gun smith and had him look it over. He gave it a clean bill of health.

I was a professional pilot, military and civilian, for most of my life. I am totally Obsessive Compulsive about things I use being in perfect order. I am the guy you would want to buy a used car from, as I am a little nuts about things being perfect. (This attitude does not apply to the neatness of my workbench).

No worries, there are no cracks. Smiley
  
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Re: Danish RB
Reply #15 - Feb 20th, 2016 at 5:17pm
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Singleshotlover wrote on Feb 20th, 2016 at 12:31am:
Might be my old eyes but your pic has led me to ask this question.  In looking at the breech block just where the hammer sits when fired is that a crack in the block?. See sort of a black line just above the hammer. Frank

 
What you are seeing is the firing pin retractor.  When you drop the block it rides
under the hammer and cams the firing pin back.
  
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tbird1960
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Re: Danish RB
Reply #16 - Feb 20th, 2016 at 5:52pm
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The purpose of that feature is to prevent the firing pin from sticking with black powder residue in the forward position and firing the gun when the breech is closed on the next round. A very good feature on a Rolling Block.
  

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dohrmc
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Re: Danish RB
Reply #17 - Feb 20th, 2016 at 7:57pm
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Just did a chamber cast, Cerrosafe. I have read to wait one hour before measuring it. Never done such a thing, but it was easy. Modeling clay in extractor groove removal was not even that bad.

Sitting here watching the clock.
  
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dohrmc
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Re: Danish RB
Reply #18 - Feb 20th, 2016 at 9:04pm
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The chamber cast cam out nicely. However, it is a very smooth transition to the rifling. I have the calipers set at 2.01", or 51mm, as depicted in the George Nonte Cartridge Conversion book.

Question to the experts: is this length case going to be too short? I have never seen the bullet fired out of this thing, so I don't know if this length case is too far from the beginning of the rifling.
The other length cartridge, 56mm, is right up into the beginning of the rifling. 

Appears to be .462 groove to groove.
  
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Re: Danish RB
Reply #19 - Feb 20th, 2016 at 9:39pm
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Assume mine had a reversible firing pin. Not now. As the breech block is rotated back firing pin is forced to retracted. Good safety feature. 

As for springs, I prefer flat springs to music wire. My Danish is a favorite plinker rifle. 

           Joe.
« Last Edit: Feb 20th, 2016 at 9:55pm by westerner »  

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Singleshotlover
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Re: Danish RB
Reply #20 - Feb 20th, 2016 at 11:43pm
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Westener's pic of the breech block clears up my crummy eyes leading me to beleving that there was a crack in the breech block. Thanks again, Frank
  

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Re: Danish RB
Reply #21 - Feb 21st, 2016 at 12:44am
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I have one, use 45-70 brass, Lee 405 bullets 20:1, 60gr ff compressed with a .030 wad on top. Shoots very well.

More input here: (You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)
  
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Re: Danish RB
Reply #22 - Feb 21st, 2016 at 9:53pm
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If you order some brass from Buffalo Arms, it is made from .348 Winchester Brass which is a touch larger case over the .45-70 and a better case to use for the rifle.

You will notice in his photo of the breech block in the open  position, this one rifle was originally a rimfire 11.7 x 51R or the next longer case and was converted to a centerfire.  These are well made rolling blocks.
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« Last Edit: Feb 21st, 2016 at 9:58pm by majorfs45 »  
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dohrmc
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Re: Danish RB
Reply #23 - Feb 22nd, 2016 at 1:06pm
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Very nice!
  
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westerner
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Re: Danish RB
Reply #24 - Feb 22nd, 2016 at 9:11pm
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dohrmc, Is the rifling in your Danish five groove? If so how did you measure it?

          Joe.
  

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dohrmc
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Re: Danish RB
Reply #25 - Feb 22nd, 2016 at 11:17pm
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I will check in the morning, but I could swear it is 6 groove. I have made easy math errors before though.

I have 2 micrometers, one is a nice Lyman. Will recheck in the am.
  
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dohrmc
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Re: Danish RB
Reply #26 - Feb 23rd, 2016 at 10:12am
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I was wrong, it is five groove. It is hard to get a good reading of the lead slug due to that. At least with my fumble fingers. 
The good news is that the rifling is very good and sharp.
With 5 grooves, how do you get a good reading?
  
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westerner
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Re: Danish RB
Reply #27 - Feb 23rd, 2016 at 10:23am
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I measure this way. Close enough for me. 



          Joe.
  

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dohrmc
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Re: Danish RB
Reply #28 - Feb 23rd, 2016 at 10:36am
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AHA! I will try that.
  
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Re: Danish RB
Reply #29 - Feb 23rd, 2016 at 8:30pm
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The chamber cast cam out nicely. However, it is a very smooth transition to the rifling. I have the calipers set at 2.01", or 51mm, as depicted in the George Nonte Cartridge Conversion book.

Question to the experts: is this length case going to be too short? I have never seen the bullet fired out of this thing, so I don't know if this length case is too far from the beginning of the rifling.
The other length cartridge, 56mm, is right up into the beginning of the rifling. 

Appears to be .462 groove to groove.


The major issue with using .45-70 brass in the Danish RB's is that the diameter of the chamber near the base is approximately .012" larger than a .45-70 chamber.  Most of the time, this is not a problem but you want to be alert to swelling of the brass directly ahead of the web.   

I had one just like yours quite a few years ago and was told that the importer "improved" a very large batch of Danish RB's by touching up the chamber with a .45-70 reamer.  My rifle was pretty, but not particularly accurate.

JackHughs
  

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Re: Danish RB
Reply #30 - Feb 24th, 2016 at 12:59am
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Jack, your post reminded me that, also quite a few years ago, I went with a friend to look at a rifle that he had seen advertised in the newspaper. It was one of the "45-70" Danish ones. The deal was concluded for the asked $10. I questioned the man if he had any other rifles for sale. Well, yes he supposed so. Out comes a Westley Richards "Improved" Martini in 450 #2 Musket. What would he want for that one? Also $10. It came home with me.
  
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Re: Danish RB
Reply #31 - Feb 24th, 2016 at 1:42am
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The swelling Jack speaks of scared me when using my rifle. One of the reasons it sits in the rack. Should arta get some 348 brass and make some smoke with it. 

            Joe.
  

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Re: Danish RB
Reply #32 - Feb 26th, 2016 at 5:11am
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I have the same rifle, yes they are excellent shooter with short 460 grain bullets max.

I ran a .458" plug down inside cases and expanded Web .002" under base/chamber diameter, then ran .460" expander 1/2" down neck, shorten Cass to Danish spec and load .462 microgroove flat nose bullet I bought from lee precision.

It is extremely accurate with 23 grains of 4759 or 24.5 grains of 5744.
  
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Re: Danish RB
Reply #33 - Apr 18th, 2016 at 7:14pm
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My Danish Remington is 1879 vintage with excellent bore. Many of these rifles show up looking as if they were unfired inside. The 45-70 Starline brass will work. Most of these rifles were converted to the longer cased 11.7x56. These guys are not exaggerating about the accuracy. Mine had a .464 grove diameter. The Lee hollow base 45 bullet measured .462 and worked great for me. Get her going-we are only this way once!!! Smiley
  
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Re: Danish RB
Reply #34 - Apr 18th, 2016 at 8:23pm
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Thanks all for the great information.  I'll have to drag mine out for a trip to the range.
  

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Re: Danish RB
Reply #35 - Apr 19th, 2016 at 6:36am
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I have one also. Mine has a perfect bore and is in excellent condition. The barrel on mine has no bayonet lug and appears to have never had one.

Frank. the block on these rifles have a feature that retracts the firing pin when the block is rolled back. 
Bill
  
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Edward C. Sharps
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Re: Danish RB
Reply #36 - Apr 19th, 2016 at 8:16am
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westerner wrote on Feb 24th, 2016 at 1:42am:
The swelling Jack speaks of scared me when using my rifle. One of the reasons it sits in the rack. Should arta get some 348 brass and make some smoke with it. 

            Joe.


In my research on the Danish RBs I have seen where guys will wrap a piece of electrical tape (twice) around the base of a 45/70 case making for a better fit. I have not used this myself, but it is a trick that seems to have worked for others.
  
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J.G.Terry
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Re: Danish RB
Reply #37 - Apr 20th, 2016 at 6:55pm
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Shame on me if I double posted. Most of the Danish RB's had been rechambered to 11.7x56R. These rifles had some work done on them to chamber a 45-70 case here. With this rifle ,with a .464 grove diameter, limited the bullet choices. I made up some Lee 400gr. Hollow base bullets. These bullets measured .462 as cast out of pure lead.  On the first batch Lee liquid lube was used. On the next batch the bullets were lubed by hand with SPG. These most recent bullets were fired with black powder. For smokeless I used Trap Door data. I have not had any problems with Starline brass when forming the cases. I have a set of C&H dies plus some 11.7x51R Huntington brass. The most recent BP loads gave excellent accuracy with the original sights. The point of impact was way high-not unusual for rifles of that vintage. I plain on neck sizing this brass.  Incidentally, the firing pin in these rifles and be flipped so the old rimfire cartridges can be fired. My rifle does not have the bayonet lug. Evidently, a number of these rifles turn up with no lug. To date, I have not been able to find whey the lug was omitted on some rifles. Good shooting.
  
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Re: Danish RB
Reply #38 - Apr 21st, 2016 at 12:20am
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Bill, finally saw the pics you posted. Thanks again. Frank
  

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Re: Danish RB
Reply #39 - May 4th, 2016 at 11:36pm
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J. G. Terry,

Presuming that a "museum employee" from the UK who answered that query wasn't just blathering about nothing, the rifles that were "reformatted" in the 1888-1895 period for the Danish National Foresters had the military sights replaced with "more appropriate" civilian sights & the bayonet lug machined off. - Evidently the National Foresters were like our modern Game Wardens.

yours, satx
  
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Re: Danish RB
Reply #40 - May 5th, 2016 at 2:22am
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To All,

Has anyone tried either .303 British and/or 8mm Lebel cases to reform for 11.7x56R??
A casual glance at on-line drawings  makes me wonder if those rimmed cases might not make easier/cheaper .45 Danish cases??
(72.oo for 20 loaded rounds or 2.oo each for empty brass leaves my Scots' soul COLD.)

yours, satx
  
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Re: Danish RB
Reply #41 - May 5th, 2016 at 1:33pm
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My Danish Roller was so "converted" to .45-70.  It is very accurate with 405g hollow based bullets & black powder.  Fired cases come out fine.
  
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Re: Danish RB
Reply #42 - May 5th, 2016 at 3:08pm
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My rifle does not have the bayonet lug. Evidently, a number of these rifles turn up with no lug. To date, I have not been able to find whey the lug was omitted on some rifles.


I believe these rifles saw long service in the coastal defenses. Long after bolt guns became the norm. Could these have been built with out a lug.
  
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