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SchwarzStock
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5744 replacement - 45-110
Feb 2nd, 2016 at 9:39am
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I have a friend in Germany experiencing difficulty with a 45-110 and BP. I have in the past been able to sort out some calibers by first using 5744 and jacketed bullets. Unfortunately he cannot find 5744. Anyone have a recommendation for a slow burning smokless that can be used in a big case? I have tried some of the BP substitues in the past but they never worked as well as 5744.

SS
  
If your rifle is not in 7.62 and you can't hit what you are aiming at with de-linked machinegun ammo you are a pretender.
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SchwarzStock
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Re: 5744 replacement - 45-110
Reply #1 - Feb 2nd, 2016 at 9:41am
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While were at this, any recommended loads for 45-110?

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If your rifle is not in 7.62 and you can't hit what you are aiming at with de-linked machinegun ammo you are a pretender.
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gunlaker
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Re: 5744 replacement - 45-110
Reply #2 - Feb 2nd, 2016 at 10:21am
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I only shoot paper patched bullets in my .45-110's.  I've found that it's quite easy to get this cartridge shooting with bore diameter patched bullets if your friend wants to try.

A good starting point would be Winchester large rifle primers, 105gr of Goex Fg, 0.030" card wad, 1/8" lube cookie, 0.060" card wad.  Buffalo Arms money bullet in 16:1 patched with 0.0016" thick paper such that it is a snig fit in the bore.  Seated 0.1" to 0.125" in case.  No deeper.   

This load will require wiping between shots.  I use two wet patches and one dry.  Muzzle velocity is pretty snappy at about 1360-1365 fps.

Chris.
  
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Re: 5744 replacement - 45-110
Reply #3 - Feb 2nd, 2016 at 10:39am
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First, what type rifle is it and how much experience does he have with smokeless powder, also, what are the types of smokeless powder he has access to, if possible.
  
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SchwarzStock
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Re: 5744 replacement - 45-110
Reply #4 - Feb 2nd, 2016 at 11:29am
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The rifle is a C. Sharps with a Badger barrel.

Easier to determine what might work than what he has available.

Many years experience as evidenced by him owning (and using) a very expensive automatic annealing machine.

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« Last Edit: Feb 2nd, 2016 at 11:35am by SchwarzStock »  
If your rifle is not in 7.62 and you can't hit what you are aiming at with de-linked machinegun ammo you are a pretender.
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SchwarzStock
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Re: 5744 replacement - 45-110
Reply #5 - Feb 2nd, 2016 at 11:33am
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gunlaker wrote on Feb 2nd, 2016 at 10:21am:
I only shoot paper patched bullets in my .45-110's.  I've found that it's quite easy to get this cartridge shooting with bore diameter patched bullets if your friend wants to try.

A good starting point would be Winchester large rifle primers, 105gr of Goex Fg, 0.030" card wad, 1/8" lube cookie, 0.060" card wad.  Buffalo Arms money bullet in 16:1 patched with 0.0016" thick paper such that it is a snig fit in the bore.  Seated 0.1" to 0.125" in case.  No deeper.  

This load will require wiping between shots.  I use two wet patches and one dry.  Muzzle velocity is pretty snappy at about 1360-1365 fps.

Chris.


He is pretty exaspirated and does not want to track down a bunch of new (to him) supplies so I can't interest him in PPBs. The political situation in Germany is getting crazy as a result of the Syrians and that is making the acquisition of supplies more difficult as well. Conventional wisdom in the past has often been to go back to smokeless and a jacketed bullet to get a baseline on the gun. Since he can't find 5744 looking to see if there is something else that may work.

SS
  
If your rifle is not in 7.62 and you can't hit what you are aiming at with de-linked machinegun ammo you are a pretender.
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Re: 5744 replacement - 45-110
Reply #6 - Feb 2nd, 2016 at 1:52pm
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If shooting jacketed bullets I would be hesitant to use 5744. Although there is no data that I am aware for a 45-110, Ken Waters (Handloader Magazine)worked with jacketed bullets in a 2.75 inch .45 case called the .45 RCBS which could be a good reference to use. Be sure to not use any type filler or wads in a round with smokeless powder, Good luck.
  
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oneatatime
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Re: 5744 replacement - 45-110
Reply #7 - Feb 2nd, 2016 at 2:58pm
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He could use Ross Seyfried's formula for nitro in large black powder cases which is 40% of the black powder charge with 4198. Of course he may have to find the Euro powder equivalent of 4198. I'll rephrase that, i.e., 110 grains black replaced by 44 grains 4198.
  
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gunlaker
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Re: 5744 replacement - 45-110
Reply #8 - Feb 2nd, 2016 at 4:21pm
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I understand.  Does your friend have a copy of the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook?  The latest edition contains .45-110 loads with the following powders:

SR-4759, 5744, IMR-4198, Reloder7, and 2015.

Chris.
  
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EricJ
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Re: 5744 replacement - 45-110
Reply #9 - Feb 3rd, 2016 at 1:31am
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Getting a hold of SR 4759 will be almost impossible as it has been discontinued and very hard to find here in the states.  He might be able to work with 2400, or if he can get some Nobel Sport powder (Vectan) try Tu3000.  It will depend a lot on the bullet he's shooting.
  
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Re: 5744 replacement - 45-110
Reply #10 - Feb 3rd, 2016 at 2:07am
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AA 1680 would be my first choice.   IMR 4198 second.
  
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Schuetzenmiester
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Re: 5744 replacement - 45-110
Reply #11 - Feb 3rd, 2016 at 2:38am
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I haven't seen 2400 anywhere for years.
  
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Re: 5744 replacement - 45-110
Reply #12 - Feb 3rd, 2016 at 6:34am
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I use in all my BPCR's and I have a lot , vihtavuori N 110  and N340  with full satisfaction 
reduced loads ,soft recoil ,no overpressure ,give  my cases a long life 
greetings 
jarmann
  
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SgtDog0311
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Re: 5744 replacement - 45-110
Reply #13 - Feb 9th, 2016 at 8:32am
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oneatatime wrote on Feb 2nd, 2016 at 2:58pm:
He could use Ross Seyfried's formula for nitro in large black powder cases which is 40% of the black powder charge with 4198. Of course he may have to find the Euro powder equivalent of 4198. I'll rephrase that, i.e., 110 grains black replaced by 44 grains 4198.


That was my thought as well.   But I'd caution about starting there.   I've found that 40% rule something to work "up to".   I have a couple that I reached BP velocities well under 40%.   Mine are old and strength was a concern.   Velocity is not pressure but it's an indicator.
« Last Edit: Feb 9th, 2016 at 10:48am by SgtDog0311 »  
Best Regards,
John
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Re: 5744 replacement - 45-110
Reply #14 - Feb 15th, 2016 at 4:50pm
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Here is some Accurate Arms Data (Accurate Powders)

4227 has about the same burning rate as 5744.

.45/110 SHARPS 2 7 ⁄ 8 "
Gun
WISEMAN
Barrel length 30"
Primer CCI 250
Case
HDS

Powder Start Chg. Velocity Max. Chg. Velocity
(L) 300 PB
OAL = 3.300"
5744
39.6
1788
44.0
1944
(L) 405 PB
OAL = 3.350"
5744
34.7
1487
38.5
1616
(L) 500 SCHM OAL = 3.750"
5744
33.3
1400
37.0
1522
  
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