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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Stop ring specs assistance needed (Read 9756 times)
Pentz
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Stop ring specs assistance needed
Feb 1st, 2016 at 4:23pm
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I'm agonizing over the measurements to specify in my stop ring mold order.  I've selected the Accurate 32-182L design, and am uncertain as to how to apply my bore measurements.

A pound cast was made for the throat and ring measurements, multiple measurements were taken with mic and caliper.  Two bore slugs were done, measurements of the lands taken with mic, lands with the micrometer.

My lands measusre .3085
The grooves measure .316
The throat is .334
The stop ring is .340

Frank, Westerner, Schutzenmeister et. al., would you mind offering recommendations?  I need to get this sucker ordered!
Brass, aluminum or iron?
Sorry for the bombardment,
Mike
  

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Schuetzenmiester
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Re: Stop ring specs assistance needed
Reply #1 - Feb 1st, 2016 at 5:01pm
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Sorry, I'm watching with interest. Need to slug the barrels on a couple rifle and get a mold too.
  

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westerner
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Re: Stop ring specs assistance needed
Reply #2 - Feb 1st, 2016 at 5:59pm
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I would make the mold ahead of the stop ring, bore diameter. Behind the stop ring would make it whatever diameter is a close fit to your fired unsized case neck.  I use .321 bullets in my .316 Stahl barrel. That is what works best in my rifles.

        Joe.
  

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John Boy
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Re: Stop ring specs assistance needed
Reply #3 - Feb 1st, 2016 at 6:38pm
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Pentz - are you going to shoot the bullets with smokeless or black powder. And remember, Accurate will cut the mold smaller if you probably will need it
All my Accurate mold are aluminum except one brass one and they cast with no issues
  
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frnkeore
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Re: Stop ring specs assistance needed
Reply #4 - Feb 1st, 2016 at 8:35pm
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I would make the bore riding part (.317 on the drawing) .309, the next band .313. 

The stop ring no larger than .010 larger than the bands in back of it. Like Joe says, if you use the 46mm case, make the bands to fill it so that the case aligns the bullet with the bore. The barrel will squish them down.

Frank
  

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Pentz
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Re: Stop ring specs assistance needed
Reply #5 - Feb 1st, 2016 at 10:21pm
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These bullets will be 20 or 25-1 atop smokeless.  The aluminum mold sounds good.  I have NOE aluminum molds too.

By bore diameter I presume you mean grooves at .308 - a bore-riding bullet at .309, then.  My case necks measure .326 with very slight tension on the inside calipers.  So the stop ring should be .336?  I understand the concept of using the case mouth to jam the nose and stop ring into the bore and throat.  The rings below the stop ring would then be sized to .326.  That should get it.

I had difficulty with the concept of a groove-diameter nose - Fine with a breech seater but worrisome with a case that has to be thumb-seated.   

The tilting block of my Aydt drops sufficiently to leave a small edge at the rear of the block mortice.  I bet one could engineer a breech seater to lock onto that edge....
  

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westerner
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Re: Stop ring specs assistance needed
Reply #6 - Feb 1st, 2016 at 10:49pm
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You don't want the nose to be groove diameter. Couldn't get a cartridge in the chamber. 
The idea is to make fixed cartridges that slide easily into the chamber. 
The bullet nose diameter should be the same as your bore diameter. The top of the lands/bore, guide the bullet only.

        Joe. 

  

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oneatatime
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Re: Stop ring specs assistance needed
Reply #7 - Feb 2nd, 2016 at 1:03am
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If the inside diameter of your fired case necks measures .326 then your chamber sounds to be oversize. I would think they shouldn't be over a few thousandths greater than the groove diameter. My 8.15s with .316 grooves have fired case necks that measure about .325 outside diameter. Is it possible someone in the past history of the rifle has run a 32 Winchester Special reamer in there? I seem to remember that was an expedient after WWII as Gis returned with rifles and no ammo.
  
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westerner
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Re: Stop ring specs assistance needed
Reply #8 - Feb 2nd, 2016 at 1:57am
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Do you think that's what was done to your 8.15X46Rs, oneatatime?

        Joe.
  

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Pentz
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Re: Stop ring specs assistance needed
Reply #9 - Feb 2nd, 2016 at 12:27pm
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I wondered about that too.  While I do not have 32 cases on hand, a 30-30 case will not begin to seat, stopping .650 short of chambering.  Don't know what to think of the larger neck size.


oneatatime wrote on Feb 2nd, 2016 at 1:03am:
If the inside diameter of your fired case necks measures .326 then your chamber sounds to be oversize. I would think they shouldn't be over a few thousandths greater than the groove diameter. My 8.15s with .316 grooves have fired case necks that measure about .325 outside diameter. Is it possible someone in the past history of the rifle has run a 32 Winchester Special reamer in there? I seem to remember that was an expedient after WWII as Gis returned with rifles and no ammo.

  

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oneatatime
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Re: Stop ring specs assistance needed
Reply #10 - Feb 2nd, 2016 at 12:46pm
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No, Joe, mine are cherry;-)
  
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Re: Stop ring specs assistance needed
Reply #11 - Feb 2nd, 2016 at 1:33pm
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Was wondering because .325 seems a little big like Pentz .326. Just measured the mouth of a fired case from my Aydt made in 1927. Measures .321-.322.  Seems to me my older Stahl made in 1891 which has the early chamber, has a larger neck diameter. 
Maybe this is why they offered hollow base bullets in the old catalogs?

         Joe.
  

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oneatatime
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Re: Stop ring specs assistance needed
Reply #12 - Feb 2nd, 2016 at 2:18pm
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Joe, I was saying outside neck and Pentz was saying inside neck. However, I have to apologize as I just got out the good micrometer and the outside neck of a fired case from the rifle with the best chamber measures .341 and the .316 bullet is a snug push in fit. The other rifle's fired case outside neck is .343 and the bullet slips in more easily and stops on the .328 ring. That rifle doesn't have as much throat and the lands engrave the bullet as the bolt closes with no problem with the .328 ring sitting on the .343 neck. I don't trust my inside neck measurements but from slipping in the bullet I would say that one is just about .316 and the other is about .318.
  
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Re: Stop ring specs assistance needed
Reply #13 - Feb 2nd, 2016 at 3:34pm
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This is my case that I use for BSing, it's 1.96 long and the bullet that I BS. The base band is .315 and the nose is .307. It's a oversize 308329 that I reamed the GC area to .315. 

With the bullet seated, the neck measures .333. I just started the base in the case, straight and then pushed it in the chamber and closed the breech block. The COAL is 3.021 and there is .130 of the base band, in the case mouth.

The nose @ .307, engraves the lands for .160 and the bullet is 1.192 long.

You can't see it but, the last .100 of the case mouth starts a taper from .340 down to the .333 and that would be the start of the "throat", if you can call it that.

This is what I mean by "adjusting" the length of the case to fit your bullet and throat. The way my chamber is, I could have a .325 SR at the end of my case and since, the exposed band measures .3125 and doesn't engrave, I could replace it with at least a .313 band.

BTW, I shoot this bullet BSed w/o any tipping.

Frank

  

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Re: Stop ring specs assistance needed
Reply #14 - Feb 2nd, 2016 at 4:56pm
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Wicked looking round there, Frank!
  
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