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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Help on a Shiloh Sharps Model 1874 in 50/90 (Read 17682 times)
High Noon
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Help on a Shiloh Sharps Model 1874 in 50/90
Jan 21st, 2016 at 11:29am
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I have a new Shiloh Sharps in (50 cal. 2 1/2 marked on the barrel) 50/90 and I would like some recommendations on some long range lead bullets to try. It has a 1/22 twist 32 inch barrel. 

I put a new Kelley Soule rear and front sites. 

I would like to buy a few precision cast bullets from someone to test then buy more or a similar bullet mould. 

I plan on shooting just smokeless powder and was wondering on loads.    

Thanks everyone! 
High Noon
  
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sharps
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Re: Help on a Shiloh Sharps Model 1874 in 50/90
Reply #1 - Jan 21st, 2016 at 12:01pm
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I think lyman manual may have some lds w/smokeless, only one I personally know that shoots a big 50 uses blk w/ pp, I use blk only in my m-68? trapdoor50/70 w/lee 500 gr, pretty much for short range fun, [oem sights]. you could try asking Shiloh about a bullet and where you might pick upsome 'samples', also could try the Shiloh forum, good luck
  
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Deadeye Bly
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Re: Help on a Shiloh Sharps Model 1874 in 50/90
Reply #2 - Jan 21st, 2016 at 12:41pm
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Unfortunately you picked a round that is not very smokeless powder friendly. I looked in the new Lyman cast bullet loading manual and there was no information at all on the 50/90. Mike Venturino's book "Shooting Buffalo Rifles of the Old West" only has information on black powder loads. He does say that when he owned one his favorite bullet was the Lyman 515141, the standard 50/70 bullet.

The large capacity of the case doesn't leave very many smokeless powders as suitable. 4759 and 5744 are probably the best but 4759 has been discontinued and may be impossible to find. Check over on the Shiloh forum. There are a number of 50/90 shooters over there, but they may stick with black powder.
  
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marlinguy
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Re: Help on a Shiloh Sharps Model 1874 in 50/90
Reply #3 - Jan 21st, 2016 at 12:45pm
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I'd be prepared to be assaulted on some forums for even considering loading a .50-90 with smokeless powders! Many of the forum members at most sites are pretty set on BP for this caliber.
  

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nuclearcricket
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Re: Help on a Shiloh Sharps Model 1874 in 50/90
Reply #4 - Jan 21st, 2016 at 2:24pm
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For bullets and loads you may want to try here: (You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)

As to smokeless loads you may not get too much help. That is a pretty big case and truthfully you would be probably best served feeding it black powder.  A lot of people shy away from black because they think its a lot of work to clean up and such but the only really involved part is cleaning your cases. As far as cleaning a rifle, a few damp patches with a good BP solvent, a couple of dry patches and an oily one and your pretty much done. If you have some lead you need to remove, yea thats a little more work but any gun you shoot cast bullets in can and probably will lead to there isn't that much difference. 
Your cases will need to be cleaned and there are a wide variety of options for that, but if you can live with cases that are not pretty, just scrub them with a brush and some soapy water till they are clean on the inside, clean the primer pockets and your done. 
Sam
  
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John Boy
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Re: Help on a Shiloh Sharps Model 1874 in 50/90
Reply #5 - Jan 21st, 2016 at 3:28pm
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Quote:
I would like some recommendations on some long range lead bullets to try.

50-90 Bullets
Ideal            515141-450gr
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Ideal            515142 - 515gr
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Not to be redundant - both bullets shot @ 1000yds with blackpowder
  
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chawk
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Re: Help on a Shiloh Sharps Model 1874 in 50/90
Reply #6 - Jan 21st, 2016 at 4:16pm
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My lyman has some smokesless loads for 50-70.  They list unique, sr-4759, imr-4227, and imr-4198.  I have no idea if any of these translate to 50-90.  Would Trailboss work in this application?
  
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gunlaker
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Re: Help on a Shiloh Sharps Model 1874 in 50/90
Reply #7 - Jan 21st, 2016 at 5:07pm
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That 1:22 twist is quite fast.  My 1:26 twist .50-90 preferred the 698gr Buffalo Arms creedmoor bullet.  With respect to smokeless I have no useful advice. What NuclearCricket told you is good advice.  I have seen the occasional data for smokeless loads, but none with what I would call long range bullets that are optimal in a 1:22 twist.

Chris.
  
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Premod70
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Re: Help on a Shiloh Sharps Model 1874 in 50/90
Reply #8 - Jan 21st, 2016 at 5:16pm
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The Big Fifty shoots smokeless as well as any of the other straight wall cases. Start with a light load of Accurate 5744, somewhere around 25 grains and go up from there. Bullet weight is the killer as the heavy bullets usually shoot better but it's a contest of recoil that the shoulder usually looses. 600 grains of lead and 40 grains or so of 5744 will get the job done.

An easy way to find the right load with smokeless is to duplicate the speed that the cartridge will run with black powder, once within the range a proper fitted bullet will perform well.
« Last Edit: Jan 21st, 2016 at 5:34pm by Premod70 »  
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boats
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Re: Help on a Shiloh Sharps Model 1874 in 50/90
Reply #9 - Jan 21st, 2016 at 5:36pm
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Agree with all it's best served with Black Powder, and real Black is no more difficult to work with than Smokeless powder.

Correct me if I am wrong but  Rifles built for the large caliber long cases were mostly intended for "Express" loads. Light bullets pushed with a case full of black powder. Intended for Game shooting, Higher velocity, longer point blank range, more distance with acceptable game killing, limit inches below and above the sight line


Real long range target rifles  were built on 40 & 45 cases Adequate wind drift ballistics with lighter bullets. And much less recoil.  I can't imagine going through a match course of fire with a 600 -700 gr bullet pushed by 90 grs of Black.

Would the OP be best served with a light 50 bullet ? He did not mention long range. 

Boats
  
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gunlaker
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Re: Help on a Shiloh Sharps Model 1874 in 50/90
Reply #10 - Jan 21st, 2016 at 6:09pm
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Boats I just said long range as the original poster was looking for some long range cast bullets.   

I have shot my 1:26 twist with bullets as light as 440gr.  They were not all that accurate, but likely because they were not a good fit for the throat rather than overstabilized.  Even then, zero compression took 95-100 grains of powder so recoil was snappier than my .32-40's Smiley

The old 3rd edition of the Cast Bullet Handbook has smokeless data for the .50-90 and even the .50-140.  They seem to have dropped that from the latest manual.   

I believe that the original twist rate for that cartridge was much slower than 1:22, more like 1:36 or thereabouts.  I know of a few people shooting fast twist .50-90's with good accuracy.  As NuclearCricket mentioned, check out HistoricShooting.com and look for Kurt or Rick Mulhern.  But they are using heavy paper patched bullets and black powder.

Chris.
  
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nuclearcricket
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Re: Help on a Shiloh Sharps Model 1874 in 50/90
Reply #11 - Jan 21st, 2016 at 7:44pm
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I am sure that with the 22" twist a good 550 to 650 paper patched bullet is gonna shine in that beast. And with that twinst I am pretty sure you could get up around the 700 grain bullets to preform quite well.   
Then again a lot is going to depend on how well the shooter can manage the recoil. 
I remember watching Paul Mathews son shooting a .50 at silhouettes and the recoil didn't seem all that bad. 
Sam
  
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High Noon
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Re: Help on a Shiloh Sharps Model 1874 in 50/90
Reply #12 - Jan 22nd, 2016 at 8:06am
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Thanks everyone!! 

Schuetzendave,  that is some great technical information and it looks like I can safely shoot 600 to 700 grain bullets. 

I'm planning on getting it shooting at 100 to 300 yards but eventually I'd like to shoot it out to 600 then 1000 yards.  So if anyone would have a few 600 to 700 grain precision cast bullets I could buy I would really appreciate it. I normally just buy moulds and things guessing what would work but this time around I'd like to try a few to see what may work. However if anyone has a nice 50 caliber mould for long range shooting please drop me a line too.   

Here is a photo of my Shiloh Sharps 50/90 if it posts.

Thanks again! 
High Noon
  
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harry_eales
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Re: Help on a Shiloh Sharps Model 1874 in 50/90
Reply #13 - Jan 22nd, 2016 at 1:30pm
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High Noon,
If your planning to shoot Creedmoor matches I think you had better read the rules. I don't think that Double Set Triggers are permitted and that there is a minimum poundage on trigger pull which is around five pounds weight. All rifles for Creedmoor competition have to undergo scrutiny before being passed as competition acceptable.
-
I would also support the use of black powder, modern powders (smokeless) really don't provide reliable ignition or a constant muzzle velocity, in large volume cases, which results in poor accuracy.

If you look at any of the old original Sharps rifle catalogues you will see that almost all of the bullets made for sale by Sharps were of paper patch design, very few were offered with grease grooves.

Paper patch bullets leave less BP fouling in the barrel than grease groove bullets and are subsequently easier to clean. Cartridge cases can be tumbled with Walnut Hulls or better still small metal stainless steel rods and there are also a range of ultrasonic cleaners available. It isn't a great cleaning chore.

You may have to experiment with BP loads as different black powders of today give different results than old powders, none of those made back in the late 1800's are available today. However, the original loads of powder and bullet weights are a good place to start and with Black Powder you can't accidentally double charge a round when reloading.  Smiley

Harry
  
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art_ruggiero
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Re: Help on a Shiloh Sharps Model 1874 in 50/90
Reply #14 - Jan 22nd, 2016 at 1:51pm
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call buffalo arms,  get their recommendation buy some bullets from them and if they work buy their mold,  the molds are great    art
  
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