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Ballard6
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Harry Pope
Dec 29th, 2015 at 12:29pm
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I have info that states Pope started to work for Stevens May 1, 1901. Others say 1900 along with others giving earlier dates. Can anyone give me a definitive date and did he take barrels from Hartford to be finished at Stevens ? Any jnfo would be appreciated.
  
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marlinguy
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Re: Harry Pope
Reply #1 - Dec 29th, 2015 at 7:29pm
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I believe May is incorrect, but 1901 is correct. The April 1901 issue of "Shooting and Fishing" announced that Harry Pope had gone to work for Stevens.
In a letter to his regular clientele, he wrote that J Stevens had purchased all his equipment, and that he would be personally ensuring that all barrels that left the plant would get his final approval before leaving. No mention of them buying materials or barrels also, but no mention they didn't either.
  

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John Boy
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Re: Harry Pope
Reply #2 - Dec 29th, 2015 at 7:47pm
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Between 1901 and 1903, Stevens rifles were available with special eight-groove barrels produced under the supervision of master barrelmaker Harry M. Pope.  Some Stevens-Pope barrels were also made for the U.S. Army's Krag rifle.  The Stevens-Pope agreement covered a period of five years, but a series of disagreements between the parties caused Pope to sever his relationship with Stevens Arms in 1903.  Rifles featuring Pope barrels and bearing the "Stevens-Pope" stamp on the barrel top bring a premium among shooters and collectors

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“In 1901 the Stevens Arms Company bought me out and from the first of May of that year I made the rifles that bear the name ‘Stevens-Pope.’ I made all of those that are numbered under about 1250.” On the last day of December, 1905 Pope left Stevens

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Ballard6
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Re: Harry Pope
Reply #3 - Dec 30th, 2015 at 8:09am
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Thanks guys for the replies. There does not appear to be any ? about the year ( 1901 ) he started just the month---- April or May of that year. Whether he took some uncompleted barrels with him to Stevens is logical, but no definite records are available. Lots of Stevens records were destroyed.   Thanks
  
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marlinguy
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Re: Harry Pope
Reply #4 - Dec 30th, 2015 at 11:06am
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I find it odd that Shooting and Fishing would publish Harry Pope joining Stevens in their April issue, but that he would say he began in May? I would assume even then that magazines took some time to put together, and an April issue would have included information that they'd gathered well before that date. So if they published he went to work for Stevens in April, then he would have had to have been there at least by April, if not a bit before.
It is possible that his reference to May might be that this indicates the first barrels built completely at Stevens, under his supervision, as I'm sure it took some time to set up, and get going. But I'd still think his employment dated to earlier than May 1901.
  

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Ballard6
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Re: Harry Pope
Reply #5 - Dec 30th, 2015 at 12:37pm
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That sounds logical.  Thanks Marlinguy
  
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FITZ
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Re: Harry Pope
Reply #6 - Dec 30th, 2015 at 5:29pm
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In the "Bullets Flight" on page 152 by Franklin W. Mann there is a description of three barrels received from Mr. Pope on January 1, 1906. One of them was a 7MM X 30" Long barrel to be made into a Woodchuck Rifle for Dr. Manns brother on the family Farm. (Page 154) The Barrel was chambered for the .25 Niedner cartridge but as a 7MM caliber. Fitted to a Winchester Single Shot Action with double Set trigger. I know the current owner of this rifle and we have lettered the Action as having been shipped with a Helm style stock in early 1906. I made a chamber cast and determined the case. We then sized down some new 30-40 brass and fire formed it and trimmed to length. I shot it out to Two Hundred Yds. It shot superbly as it still had a perfect bore. Shot with a .28 caliber cast bullet of 105 Grs as we did not want to risk Jacketed bullet wear or damage. The Stevens Forend that came with it had 7mm 30" hand written on the barrel channel inside in pencil. The Pope #
on the barrel was 1250 something I just do not remember the exact last digit as it has been nearly 10 years since this effort, but it was a low number less than 5. There has been a lot of different information on the last or highest Pope number he did at Stevens. I think? but cannot find it in Manns book he somewhere said these were the last barrels he made at Stevens but cannot find it at this time but it has to be close.
HTH Regards, FITZ. Smiley
  

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Ballard6
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Re: Harry Pope
Reply #7 - Jan 7th, 2016 at 9:09pm
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Fritz   It is thought that Pope worked on barrels up to #1250 give or take a few. This does not mean he was personally involved with each barrel as he was traveling a lot to matches,etc. Also after he left Stevens, Fred Ross who knew a thing or two about Pope barrels was still there so those after #1250 were still excellent in quality just didn't have Pope's blessing. My main interest was whether Pope took unfinished Hartford barrels with him to Stevens where they were finished. Sounds reasonable, but facts probably lost to history with destruction of Stevens documents and loss of his records.  Best to all
  
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ledball
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Re: Harry Pope
Reply #8 - Jan 8th, 2016 at 7:59am
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The Stevens Pope I have is # 1750, about what year would it have been made, the action is an early four digit.  Ledball
  
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Ballard6
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Re: Harry Pope
Reply #9 - Jan 8th, 2016 at 7:43pm
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Ledball   I don't know the answer to your question and since the Stevens records were destroyed ( at least that is my understanding ) there maybe no way of knowing for certain. I'll see Gary Quinlan next week & will ask him. The Jersey City Pope books may shed some light when they are published which I hope is soon.
  
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Re: Harry Pope
Reply #10 - Jan 11th, 2016 at 10:25am
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This is out of Pope's Barrels by Ray M Smith. Hope this helps.
  
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Ballard6
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Re: Harry Pope
Reply #11 - Jan 11th, 2016 at 6:16pm
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Thanks ssmann.
  
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Ballard6
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Re: Harry Pope
Reply #12 - Jan 17th, 2016 at 7:54pm
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ledball    After talking to Gary Quinlan it appears your Stevens-Pope was built about 1912-1913. Apparently Fred Ross sent out a letter in 1913 that no more would be made.  Hope this helps.
  
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RJM
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Re: Harry Pope
Reply #13 - Feb 3rd, 2016 at 10:06am
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Even during the 1912-13 period, how many of these barrels did Pope actually make or inspect, since he was frequently out shooting matches, etc? 

My thought is that it's just another unknown in the Pope saga. 

Regards,
Ron
  
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marlinguy
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Re: Harry Pope
Reply #14 - Feb 3rd, 2016 at 11:56am
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RJM wrote on Feb 3rd, 2016 at 10:06am:
Even during the 1912-13 period, how many of these barrels did Pope actually make or inspect, since he was frequently out shooting matches, etc? 

My thought is that it's just another unknown in the Pope saga. 

Regards,
Ron


I doubt Pope did most of the work on these barrels, regardless of what time period when he was at Stevens. But he oversaw every bit of it, and was the last person to have the OK as to whether they left the factory or not. 
I'd also doubt he was shooting matches on weekdays, as most were weekend matches. Considering how long it took to make a barrel, I also doubt any left without his approval.
  

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