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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Question for 40-65 (or any) Black Powder shooters? (Read 10372 times)
SSShooter
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Re: Question for 40-65 (or any) Black Powder shooters?
Reply #15 - Nov 19th, 2015 at 9:21am
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Shoot only fixed BP ammo in my 40-65 (~3200rds this past season - probably the same in 2016). Am using BACo 'Money' bullets in 400, 413 (they say 420 but cast at 413 for me in 20-1) and 425gr using 2F Swiss. I load so that bullet is into the lands as much as I can get it with my thumb (no camming action with a Hepburn). That means that all of loads have two or more wads in them and it does not hurt accuracy. I wipe using a 5-1 mix of water soluble cutting oil & water after every shot. On hot/dry days, I am going to wipe with two patches to see if that helps at the longer distances. Have some small amount of leading at the end of a 10 or 15 shot string, but nothing more than most folks get when shooting similar loads.
  

Glenn - Stevens 044 1/2, Bartlein SS 5R barrel in 22LR
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SgtDog0311
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Re: Question for 40-65 (or any) Black Powder shooters?
Reply #16 - Nov 19th, 2015 at 9:13pm
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Thanks for that SSShooter... never thought of using double wads like that.    

Can always use learn another solution for wiping too.      

Do you finger seat or use seat with neck tension?

Nobody is taking me up on that question.   Still wondering if a chamber .001 over OD of case neck diameter (with a seated bullet) is about right for that or maybe with spring back from the case .002 over would be better.
  

Best Regards,
John
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svartkruttgris#369
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Re: Question for 40-65 (or any) Black Powder shooters?
Reply #17 - Nov 19th, 2015 at 9:40pm
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John,
For some of us double wads are almost SOP and we use even more, 3-4-5 or even 6, for a total wad stack of 0,25" or more. For example, I operate my 40-65 as a 40-50 and use wads to get bullets up to where they are lightly forced into rifling. Sorta the opposite of using tapered lands bullets, seated out, so more BP can be used.

Then there are some folks that put a bunch of wads in their 45-90s and 45-100s, etc. BP loads for times when they are not enjoying the recoil as much as usual.

Lotsa variables to mix and match,
Grisen
  
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MartiniBelgian
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Re: Question for 40-65 (or any) Black Powder shooters?
Reply #18 - Nov 20th, 2015 at 2:04am
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Match rifle is finger seating only for me - eliminates another variable.  And .001 over brass diameter (which one?  sized?  unsized?) would be pretty hard.
Suggest you approach it the other way.  Section a case from the lot you'r going to use and measure wall thickness at the mouth, measure your bullet dia., if you want to seat the bullet, you'll need at least .001 difference between case ID and bullet dia. Also add something for brass springback - at least .002.  otherwise you might end up with neckturning every case, which is pretty labour-intensive...
  
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SgtDog0311
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Re: Question for 40-65 (or any) Black Powder shooters?
Reply #19 - Nov 20th, 2015 at 12:14pm
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That's exactly what I was after MartiniBelgian.  Thanks!

I don't have a chamber yet... making those decisions about the chamber size while my rifle is in for reline.

My bore/groove will be 400/408.  I was gonna start with a .410 diameter bullet, recognizing something smaller could be required by the rifle.   

A .410 seated gives a .432 OD neck diameter.

That tells me my wall thickness is .011 and my calipers confirm that.  Was relying on those measurements because I don't have the kind of instruments that would give me a good reading.  I'm already doing inside neck reaming with a 40-63 so I can't say I welcome that but I suppose I would were I to miscalculate.   

I was thinking worse case a .433 chamber neck (.001 over)would require me to seat with a die but give enough room for release.   

From there, if I were to need to size my boolits to .409, I thought perhaps a .409 may be the diameter that allows for springback and likewise allows for a slip fit.

Sounds like your experience rules out the slip fit for a .410 and maybe even a .409.   

I wanted a tight chamber so just trying to vet my calulations.

Further comments are welcome and appreciated.
  

Best Regards,
John
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MartiniBelgian
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Re: Question for 40-65 (or any) Black Powder shooters?
Reply #20 - Nov 20th, 2015 at 2:50pm
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No reason to go bigger than groove dia. with the bullet - it just gets swaged back down.  If your barrel is groove .408, then a .408 bullet is more than good enough.  At least, that's what I do in my no.2 Musket.  .458 bullet, same as groove - but I found out the hard way that .001 clearance isn't enough - neck turning time...
  
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SgtDog0311
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Re: Question for 40-65 (or any) Black Powder shooters?
Reply #21 - Nov 20th, 2015 at 2:53pm
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Thnx MB!
  

Best Regards,
John
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SSShooter
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Re: Question for 40-65 (or any) Black Powder shooters?
Reply #22 - Nov 20th, 2015 at 8:30pm
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SgtDog0311 wrote on Nov 19th, 2015 at 9:13pm:
Thanks for that SSShooter... never thought of using double wads like that.    
Can always use learn another solution for wiping too.     
Do you finger seat or use seat with neck tension?
Nobody is taking me up on that question.   Still wondering if a chamber .001 over OD of case neck diameter (with a seated bullet) is about right for that or maybe with spring back from the case .002 over would be better.          

My chicken/200yd load with the 400gr BACo Money bullet & 58gr of 2F Swiss has 3x0.060" wads and I've shot several 100/7X with it (and would be very happy to get 7 chickens Wink).
Am using Trimsol cutting oil and it is great. Quite a number of us use it as one of our fellow shooters bought a 5gal pail and sells it in pints for $5. Use about 1-2 per season. I run very wet patches.
I do not work my brass after fire-formed to my chamber. I anneal the neck ~every 10 firings, which works out to about twice a year for me. I thumb seat the bullet and then use a CH4D bushing neck sizing die to put 0.001-2" tension on the bullet. With only about 0.250-0.325" of the bullet in the case, I don't need to neck size very far down. Just enough to put some consistent tension and square up the case neck/bullet to the axis of the bore. Between that and pushing the bullet into the lands as much as I can with my thumb I believe that I'm getting everything settled about as well as I can without actually breech-seating. I can turn the bullets in the case and pull them out with a determined effort without tools after putting in the tension.
I'm not sure what you are asking about the chamber. I bought a DanT (may he RIP) designed reamer and had my rifle chambered using it and simply go with fire-formed brass and the bushing neck-sizing die mentioned above to add a bit of tension and am very happy. John Taylor, a well known/regarded gunsmith who posts on this board now has the reamer. 
My barrel is a GM and it shoots great. is a nominal 0.400"x0.408" and all my BACo bullets drop at 0.4095", +/- 0.0005". I pan lube and do not size the bullets. They are very round (especially when they leave the barrel Wink).
  

Glenn - Stevens 044 1/2, Bartlein SS 5R barrel in 22LR
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SgtDog0311
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Re: Question for 40-65 (or any) Black Powder shooters?
Reply #23 - Nov 20th, 2015 at 10:20pm
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Thanks SS... 'John's got the reamer'.   Now you really have my attention.  I'll check with John.  Thanks.   Appreciate the other info as well.
  

Best Regards,
John
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