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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) My idea for a new/old SS Rifle: (Read 15576 times)
Salvo
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My idea for a new/old SS Rifle:
Nov 15th, 2015 at 10:47am
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I'd like to see a quality small-frame falling-block rifle that sold for under $800.00 - In particular, I'd like to see one of the old Stevens designs brought back.

Something that would handle rim-fires, and center-fire rifle cartridges up to maybe 250 Savage or so, plus most pistol cartridges. - I would particularly like to see 5.7x28 as an available chambering.

More difficult to achieve than the above but still do-able would be something like the above, but with interchangeable barrels. To do this, the extractor mechanism would have to be part of the barrel, as it is with the T/C single-shots.

Does this sound like it may be possible? 

The current Winchester low-walls currently marketed only for rim-fires are nice - but they are over-priced to the point of being ludicrous.

Single-shot aficionados need a break!   Cry
  
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Randy
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Re: My idea for a new/old SS Rifle:
Reply #1 - Nov 15th, 2015 at 12:26pm
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Amen to that Brother on both counts, availability and cost. I think that CPA is a fine rifle but you wonder what something like that could be made for, cost wise, if it was mass produced. It is good to dream.  Smiley
  
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Ray_Newman
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Re: My idea for a new/old SS Rifle:
Reply #2 - Nov 15th, 2015 at 3:17pm
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The problem with "cost" is a problem of "demand."

Single shot rifles are a very small niche appealing to a small/limited number of shooters. Bolt and semi-autos are much more popular.
  

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John Boy
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Re: My idea for a new/old SS Rifle:
Reply #3 - Nov 15th, 2015 at 3:33pm
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Go to any range and look down the line. Betcha you'll be the only SS there.  Fire black powder reloads and many on the line will meander down for a look only
  
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Salvo
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Re: My idea for a new/old SS Rifle:
Reply #4 - Nov 15th, 2015 at 4:51pm
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All true.

I am thinking though that the high prices of existing single-shots are one reason why very few shooters will opt for them, except the T/C Encore which seems to sell fairly well.

A reasonable quality falling block at bolt-action prices might make a difference, especially if it offers something that good-looking bolt rifles cannot, as in interchangeable barrels.

As with the bolt guns, the economic factor to consider is a design that can be mostly if not completely done with modern CNC machinery. Remember how the original Winchester model 70 design became "too expensive to manufacture' and they went over to push-feed design for a while there? - The controlled-round feed model 70 returned after Winchester invested in CNC machinery - and all of a sudden it wasn't too expensive to make after all.

I think if somebody who knew their way around modern machinery got together with a clever designer, we could have what I am suggesting at less than 800 bucks a pop for a basic model, and of course one could then dress it up with better wood, extra barrels, fancier sights and so on, if desired.

I believe that demand would grow if there was a good under-800 dollar switch-barrel alternative to the ridiculously overpriced Ruger and Winchester offerings.

There will always be a small market for custom guns, but I'm thinking high volume, at prices that would not scare the average shooter away.

Anyway, it seems possible to me... Maybe one day my dream will come true.
  
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BP
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Re: My idea for a new/old SS Rifle:
Reply #5 - Nov 15th, 2015 at 5:40pm
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It's too bad that the current factory Winchester low-walls use different parts, different screw threads etc, let alone don't even look like the originals.
  

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Salvo
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Re: My idea for a new/old SS Rifle:
Reply #6 - Nov 15th, 2015 at 9:05pm
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I never really understood what was up with that.

I had a Winchester highwall in 270WSM. When I disassembled it to do some trigger work, the innards were unrecognizable. 
  
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Schuetzenmiester
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Re: My idea for a new/old SS Rifle:
Reply #7 - Nov 16th, 2015 at 3:32am
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I considered going into business with a well known maker 20 years ago.  It really didn't seem worthy of risking capital pricing them in the $3,000 range.  Maybe as a hobby, labor of love, but not for anyone needing to make a living doing it  Cry
  

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Dr.Maynard
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Re: My idea for a new/old SS Rifle:
Reply #8 - Nov 16th, 2015 at 8:03am
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For discussion purposes, the terms "Cost" and "Price" are two greatly different terms, and are not to be confused as meaning the same thing.

I am not suggesting that one needs to be an accountant graduate capable of performing coat/price analysis.  However, a brief definition might be appropriate here. 

For instance, if the XYX Corporation (XYZ) desires to manufacture a S.S. firearm to bring to the market place, then XYZ needs to first calculate what the Cost will be to produce the product.  "Total Cost" would include such categories as; materials, labor, facilities, utilities, insurance, taxes, other overhead costs, and general / administrative costs, and misc. costs (i. e. cost of money) of doing business. 

Next, once the Costs are accumulated and totaled, which equals Total Cost of the product, the Price is Calculated.  Price is composed of Total Cost, plus selling costs such as distribution costs, selling commissions, and profit.

Where the end user (customer) feels the abuse of the manufacturer is in the profit margin calculation and the manufacturer's interpretation of what is "unfair and unusual"

.
  
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Chuckster
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Re: My idea for a new/old SS Rifle:
Reply #9 - Nov 16th, 2015 at 10:13am
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Seems like I read somewhere that the retail price of a mass produced product is about 5X the manufacturing cost.
CPA beats this with direct marketing although their costs and quality are higher.
Chuck
  
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Schuetzenmiester
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Re: My idea for a new/old SS Rifle:
Reply #10 - Nov 16th, 2015 at 11:45am
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Quote:


Where the end user (customer) feels the abuse of the manufacturer is in the profit margin calculation and the manufacturer's interpretation of what is "unfair and unusual"

.


That is an interesting question.  What should a customer who works for, say a major aerospace manufacturer whose cost to the company is close to $100 / hour, consider a reasonable and fair profit margin?
  

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Chuckster
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Re: My idea for a new/old SS Rifle:
Reply #11 - Nov 16th, 2015 at 1:08pm
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Can say what it used to be for government aerospace: About 15% for risky fixed price contracts, 5-10% for cost plus contracts.
Suspect commercial is higher due to increased risk.
Chuck
  
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Dr.Maynard
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Re: My idea for a new/old SS Rifle:
Reply #12 - Nov 16th, 2015 at 1:27pm
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Quote:
CPA beats this with direct marketing although their costs and quality are higher.
Chuck


Thanks Chuck --  Good points, to which I would like to add that CPA (in Dingman's Ferry) has little marketing cost to absorb, by virtue of the fact there are no middle men/women who earn sales commission or direct salaries doing marketing.  I have seen a minimum of advertising in the early years of the business, but not lately.  CPA supports and sponsors the various sports of recreational marksmanship and its major events. 

The success of the company is, I believe, directly traceable to the high quality of customer service provided.  That which is delivered well in advance of the product delivery, but also after the sale and delivery of the product (warranty, if you will).  CPA also excels at selling additional "add ons" after the original sale in terms of additional barrels, finger levers, palm rests, bullet moulds, etc., etc.

They are proficient at subcontracting out major components, thus avoiding large capital investments in labor, machinery, raw materials and facilities.
  
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Dr.Maynard
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Re: My idea for a new/old SS Rifle:
Reply #13 - Nov 16th, 2015 at 1:46pm
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- In particular, I'd like to see one of the old Stevens designs brought back.


In particular, they, whomever they may be, did in fact bring back the Stevens (Savage Arms) Model No. 30.  Did you not get the memo that was sent around?

Anyway, you can read about the Stevens Favorite Model 30 here:

(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)

Wink
  
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Schuetzenmiester
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Re: My idea for a new/old SS Rifle:
Reply #14 - Nov 16th, 2015 at 4:48pm
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Chuckster wrote on Nov 16th, 2015 at 1:08pm:
Can say what it used to be for government aerospace: About 15% for risky fixed price contracts, 5-10% for cost plus contracts.
Suspect commercial is higher due to increased risk.
Chuck

I was referring to  customer's (that employee) expectations that others work for peanuts far below their own wages and benefit costs.  Good wages, medical, retirement, paid sick leave, paid vacations plus 2 weeks paid time off at Christmas and New Years adds up to a total cost in the neighborhood of $100/ hour, probably more.  My own cost without all that paid time off (not provided in construction trade contracts) was about $65.  Should that person reasonably expect a business to produce a quality SS for the same amount of money, $800?
  

"some old things are lovely, warm still with life ... of the forgotten men who made them." - D.H. Lawrence
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