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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Springfield U.S. Krag Model 1894 .22 Gallery (Read 9126 times)
slumlord44
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Springfield U.S. Krag Model 1894 .22 Gallery
Oct 13th, 2015 at 11:30pm
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With Stevens-Pope .22 Barrel. Not our typical single shot but a single shot pope. Any idea what these are worth today? Looking at one and not sure. Wood is decent. Metal browning. Bore supposed to be mint. The last one I saw on GB I think went in the $2000 range. Thoughts on this one? It would fit nicely between my Stevens collection and my military .22 Trainer collection.
  
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waterman
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Re: Springfield U.S. Krag Model 1894 .22 Gallery
Reply #1 - Oct 14th, 2015 at 1:26pm
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Find out the number of the barrel.  Should be on the bottom.  Probably necessary to remove stock to see the number.

All the value is in the barrel.  Other parts are just Krag parts.  Value for a good one is increasing.
  
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slumlord44
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Re: Springfield U.S. Krag Model 1894 .22 Gallery
Reply #2 - Oct 14th, 2015 at 1:51pm
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1015
  
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FITZ
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Re: Springfield U.S. Krag Model 1894 .22 Gallery
Reply #3 - Oct 14th, 2015 at 6:51pm
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slumlord, that number 1015  is in the range of Barrels made when Pope was there. Regards, FITZ. Smiley
  

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slumlord44
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Re: Springfield U.S. Krag Model 1894 .22 Gallery
Reply #4 - Oct 14th, 2015 at 8:36pm
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That helps. External metal condition is decent for the age but definitely not mint. Wood is decent. Comes with sling and peep site. Think I am going to take it if it is still available. Been looking for something Pope for years and this seems to be about the low end for anything of his.
  
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slumlord44
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Re: Springfield U.S. Krag Model 1894 .22 Gallery
Reply #5 - Oct 16th, 2015 at 12:34am
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I have done some more research to refresh my memory on these. Several state militias bought barrels and converted guns for training. Supposedly most of these were eventually  converted back to original spec's. Many were apparently sold to individuals so my assumption is that as long is the barrel is a proper Stevens-Pope barrel there is really no "correct" configuration on these. They would depend on what the original builder put together back in the day.
  
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craigd
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Re: Springfield U.S. Krag Model 1894 .22 Gallery
Reply #6 - Oct 16th, 2015 at 10:02am
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One just sold about a month ago over on nitroexpress. It's on the first page of the classified section near the bottom. May not be quite what you're thinking about, but looked to me like a very interesting rifle.
  
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Kurt_701
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Re: Springfield U.S. Krag Model 1894 .22 Gallery
Reply #7 - Oct 16th, 2015 at 7:41pm
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Sold in 2012 at RIA.
This is an example of one of the Pope barreled Model 1898 Krag .22 caliber Gallery Practice rifles manufactured by Springfield Armory. These Pope barreled variants were not government altered or purchased, but strictly commercial products. The rifle has the distinctive altered receiver side, .22 caliber Stevens - Pope barrel with off-set chamber and bolt with auxiliary extractor for the .22 Long cartridge. The receiver is marked with the standard "U.S./MODEL 1898. SPRINGFIELD ARMORY" followed by the serial number. The top of the barrel is marked "STEVENS - POPE". The left side of the stock wrist is stamped with the boxed script "JLA/1899" cartouche. The underside of the stock wrist is stamped with the circled "P" and a faint two digit number. The rifle is fitted with a blade front and 1901 tangent rear sight graduated to 20 and marked 1, 2, 3, B and 4 on the left side of the base. The rifle is mounted with a full one piece straight grip stock and handguard, with bayonet lug and stacking swivel on the front band, flat steel buttplate with compartment (cleaning rod not included) and sling swivels.
  

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slumlord44
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Re: Springfield U.S. Krag Model 1894 .22 Gallery
Reply #8 - Oct 24th, 2015 at 3:10am
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The gun came in today. Stock forearm was shortened to just in front of the barrel band. I checked out the bolt mounted peep sight in Strobel's book and it is a Rice. Shows a 1939 catalog photo and a $2.50 price. The barrel was $20 in the 1902 Stevens-Pope catalog. Bore looks pristine which was my primary concern. I will post some photos when I get time. Neat piece of history. It has a neat period sling that is intact but showing its age. Any suggestions as to what to use on the leather to preserve it without doing harm? Pecards has been suggested in the past and I have some but have never used it yet. Comments on leather preservative that won't do harm?
  
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Re: Springfield U.S. Krag Model 1894 .22 Gallery
Reply #9 - Oct 24th, 2015 at 3:23am
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Is the barrel a full 30"?

Frank
  

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Re: Springfield U.S. Krag Model 1894 .22 Gallery
Reply #10 - Oct 24th, 2015 at 1:00pm
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The Rice was a pretty much ho-hum sight intended for all the old Krags that were chopped up into hunting rifles.  Much, much better contemporary receiver sights are the Pacific and the Redfield (and maybe Marble's) "no drill" types adjustable for windage & elevation.  With these, you remove the magazine cutoff.  The receiver sights fit into the cutoff slot.  IIRC, they sell for about $100 and are not too difficult to find.

Back in the day, some who shot the Krag with the Stevens-Pope barrels would remove the magazine side plate.  That let the empties fall out the left side.  With the side plate left in place, the empties might fall part way into the magazine opening and get caught between the magazine follower and the bolt.   

A few years back, I messed about with a Krag Model 1898 Gallery Practice Rifle.  The stock had been replaced and the magazine flip open door and all the innards removed.  Empty cases fell into the space where the Krag cartridges used to reside.  To remove them, you turned the rifle upside down and shook it like a piggy bank.  If you are old enough to remember piggy banks.

The big questions about the Stevens-Pope Krag barrels are "how many were made?" and "how many were bought by the military?" and "what happened to them?".  Those who gather such knowledge tell me that there are about 15 surviving specimens known (only 2 carbine length) and that they seem to be serial numbered along with the rest of the Stevens-Pope rifles.   

Back in the day, the S-P Krag barrels had a major impact on military marksmanship training in the US.  Springfield Armory built 883 Model 1898 Gallery Practice Rifles in 1907-1908 to replace the S-P barrels.  That is what leads to my questions.
  
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slumlord44
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Re: Springfield U.S. Krag Model 1894 .22 Gallery
Reply #11 - Oct 24th, 2015 at 8:39pm
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The barrel is 30'". The Rice sight is definitely a simple inexpensive sight. I will keep my eye out for something better. Shot it today at 25 yards with a few different types of ammo. It seems to like CCI Green tag better than the other target ammo I tried. Better sight and practice will help. No problem dumping the empties out of the loading gate. The bore is really pristine on this one. Bluing on the barrel is somewhat mottled but decent. Sort of neat finally getting to shoot something that Pope himself was involved with. The 1898 Gallery Practice Rifles are really scarce. It is now on my watch list. I am thinking that there would be a lot more than 15 of the Stevens-Pope barrels left. I that's the case I  stole mine. I have an acquaintance who has an original 1903 Springfield Hoffer Thompson conversion for sale with 6 cartridge adapters that is also tempting.
  
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frnkeore
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Re: Springfield U.S. Krag Model 1894 .22 Gallery
Reply #12 - Oct 25th, 2015 at 2:01am
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If you have a chronograph, it would be very interesting to see what the velocity is when it exits and compare with a 24" or under barrel.

Frank
  

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Re: Springfield U.S. Krag Model 1894 .22 Gallery
Reply #13 - Oct 25th, 2015 at 12:40pm
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Re:  Model 1898 Gallery Practice Rifles.  The first batch produced (maybe 100?) were chambered for .22 Extra Long and have .226" groove diameters.  They are hopelessly inaccurate as target rifles and are not much more than curios.  If you are going to buy a GPR, either shoot it or slug the barrel before you hand over the money.  The later production rifles are rifled and chambered correctly and shoot accurately.  You cannot tell from looking at the rifle serial number.  The actions were made and numbered and then put into a bin.  Assemblers simply picked up the nearest action and went to work.

As an aside, I tried one of the early ones with CCI stingers and it shot OK, as far as Stingers go. Could one be made to handle the .22 WRF or Magnum?  Removing & replacing the auxiliary extractor is a lot of work.

Re: Hoffer-Thompson.  As I understand the production history, Hoffer (sp?) was the guy who decided to chamber the first GPRs for .22 Extra Long and drew up the specs for the .226 groove diameter.  His next bright idea was the Hoffer-Thompson.  They too are just curios and totally inoperable without the shell holders.  I suppose replacement shell holders could be made easily enough.  It would only take money.

If you dig into the Hoffer-Thompson, and especially before you spend a bunch on one, read the comments of Townsend Whelen (The American Rifle, 1918) and Phil Sharpe (The Rifle in America, 1937).  Sharpe was known to say rude things and he was at his rudest when he wrote about the H-T.

But if it was not for Hoffer and the Army politicians, we would not have Winder Muskets. Wink
  
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slumlord44
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Re: Springfield U.S. Krag Model 1894 .22 Gallery
Reply #14 - Oct 26th, 2015 at 12:30am
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The one I am looking at has some of the adapters with it. I am aware of the fact that it is more of an oddity and collector item than a target gun. The Springfield M1 and M2 Trainers are a different story. My M2 is a great shooter.
  
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