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emmett22405
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Miroku/WInchester 1885 Win problem
Sep 18th, 2015 at 9:43am
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For info purposes mine also had the lee shaver trigger job several years ago-- fantastic improvement. Yesterday fired one shot ok, then second shot attempt--nothing; not even a firing pin indent. on primer. Tried several more shots, new shells, noted that the hammer was not going to half cock upon closing breech. I dont (yet) have the reassembly kit so waiting to open up action. Any ideas what failed/what to look for? Thanks.
  
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ssdave
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Re: Miroku/WInchester 1885 Win problem
Reply #1 - Sep 18th, 2015 at 2:20pm
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The action has a safety feature that essentially keeps the rifle from firing accidentally if the hammer is hit.  What is happening is the hammer fall is slow, probably caused by oil thickening up on the parts or dirt building up in the action, and the safety feature interprets that as an accidental discharge and prevents the firing pin from activating.  I had this happen a few years ago at Quigley when the dust storms were real bad, and my Browning loaner rifle quit operating.  Poured turpentine into the action, worked it a bit, wiped it off with a paper towel and was back in business.  Took less than 5 minutes, right on the firing line.

The cure for this is to simply flush out the action with solvent, and then re-oil.  I pour some turpentine or paint thinner through the action from the top, and let it drip out the bottom.  Or, you can use any spray solvent, but I try to avoid those as many of them eat up the stock finish.  

Then, I re-oil lightly, using something like spray can of rem-oil.  Should be good for another year or two.  You do not need to disassemble the action to clean it, just do this.

dave
  
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emmett22405
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Re: Miroku/WInchester 1885 Win problem
Reply #2 - Sep 19th, 2015 at 1:14pm
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SSDAVE, thanks. Unfortunately, while I now have the cleanest innards ever, the problem remains.  It is now light enough in there to see what is happening-- the hammer catch IS engaging the full cock notch on the hammer sear but then slips off as the action is further closed--the trigger sear is not holding the hammer sear against the hammer catch.  Any ideas as to whether it is a slipping/worn trigger or hammer sear sear or maybe a broken hammer sear spring or what? 
  
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argie1891
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Re: Miroku/WInchester 1885 Win problem
Reply #3 - Sep 19th, 2015 at 2:29pm
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sounds like you need a new sear and maybe a new trigger..  wonder if they didn't get heat treated properly. the action is simple enough that replacing these parts shouldn't take a brain surgeon
  

if you think you have it figured out  then you just dont understand
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ssdave
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Re: Miroku/WInchester 1885 Win problem
Reply #4 - Sep 19th, 2015 at 4:21pm
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Take the buttstock off, and where the through bolt goes in, see if someone has threaded in a "Dale McGee" sear engagement adjuster.  It is a 7mm bolt with a turned down nose, inserted into the stock bolt hole, that limits the sear engagement.  If it has had one installed, turn it out a bit, and see if that fixes the problem.  If that fixes the problem, turn it in a bit at a time until the hammer will not engage, then back it out 1/8 turn and lock tite it in with blue locktite.  I think that the Dale McGee fix is a very good one, I know that Texas Mac disagrees with me on that point and recommends the Lee Shaver fix instead.  I've had very good experience with the McGee fix.

There is also a factory screw on the trigger mechanism that is supposed to do the same thing, but really doesn't do much.  Try backing it out, and make sure it isn't limiting the engagement too much.  If those two things don't work, might have to take it apart and look at the trigger/sear/hammer components to figure out why they're not working right.

dave

Postscript:  Be very careful taking the buttstock off.  The through bolt hole is a few hairs thickness from the outside of the stock, and if you get a screwdriver or such off center on the head of the through bolt, it can crack the side of the stock when you turn it.  I use a long 1/4" driver or 3/8" drive socket extension and a screwdriver socket to make sure that doesn't happen when I'm working on mine.  I can't recall what the screw head is, but if I remember correctly, it is a simple slotted screw head.
  
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texasmac
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Re: Miroku/WInchester 1885 Win problem
Reply #5 - Sep 23rd, 2015 at 2:38am
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emmett22405,

It could be that the tip of the trigger sear is worn.  Have you tried fully rotating the trigger adjust screw counterclockwise several turns?  Another test is to open the action, with the rifle upside down, use a thin pointed tool to press on the hammer sear.  If the hammer sear spring is not broken the hammer sear should have a springy feel and spring back.  If it does not spring back I'm betting you'll find a broken hammer sear spring.  Although not common it's the most likely part that fails in the Miroku Browning actions.  If you find the spring broken, Browning has the original springs in stock, but I suggest contacting Lee Shaver and get one of his replacement springs, which is a better design.

For much more details on this and other possible fixes you might consider getting my book on the rifles ( (You need to Login or Register to view media files and links))

Wayne
  

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emmett22405
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Re: Miroku/WInchester 1885 Win problem
Reply #6 - Sep 30th, 2015 at 1:57pm
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Thanks to all.  I do have your book, TexasMac but I was putting off opening it (the rifle) up.  The trigger sear spring does give SOME resistance but not as much as on my Browning BPCR-- I had an aha moment about the worn sear face also & exchanged  the 2 trigger assemblies and for one sweeett closing the Win did catch the hammer hook--but after putting all back together it does not repeatedly catch--and now the Browning does not catch either. After swapping trigger assemblies back,  looks like the fun 3 handed game of taking a Miroku apart and putting it back together is upon me.
  
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emmett22405
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Re: Miroku/WInchester 1885 Win problem--SOLVED
Reply #7 - Oct 2nd, 2015 at 8:38pm
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Well thanks to Texasmac and his book, y'all, and a just bought small arbor press my Miroku 1885 38-55 is now up and running despite Joaquin. It was the hammer sear spring after all, despite the symptoms not exactly  mimicking the normally encountered symptoms.  For a really mechanically challenged person, victory is sweet
  
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texasmac
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Re: Miroku/WInchester 1885 Win problem
Reply #8 - Oct 3rd, 2015 at 1:04am
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emmett22405,

Congratulation.  A toast to you as a new member of BDAC (Browning Disassembly & Assembly Club). Grin

BTW, I glad my book helped out.

Wayne
  

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emmett22405
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Re: Miroku/WInchester 1885 Win problem
Reply #9 - Oct 16th, 2015 at 10:14am
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follow up--occasionally still get a FTF and there is no indent of the firing pin on the primer face  --I eventually noticed  that if the primer is in any way proud she wont fire. I have now started uniforming my primer pockets--even using military crimp remover--but what is the mechanism/feature that prevents the firing with a proud primer??
  
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Leo1885
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Re: Miroku/WInchester 1885 Win problem
Reply #10 - Oct 16th, 2015 at 12:41pm
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Probably the energy in the firing pin is dissipated somewhat as it pushes in the primer 'til it seats on the bottom of the pocket.
  
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kcajeel
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Re: Miroku/WInchester 1885 Win problem
Reply #11 - Oct 18th, 2015 at 7:04pm
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I've called Lee Shaver before for advice. He's a very cordial, knowledgeable person that seems to not mind helping someone.
Try giving him a call.
Jack
  

jack
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