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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Report on new Saeco mould 32-40 (Read 13434 times)
Brudford01
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Report on new Saeco mould 32-40
Sep 15th, 2015 at 4:39pm
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Got out today to try the bullets I casted in my new Saeco 32-40 mould . I had been using the Hoch mould with good results . The Saeco mold is casting a 200 gr. bullet about .322- .323" using a 30:1 alloy mix . Rifle is a CPA heavy Douglas barrel 32-40 . The Saeco bullet is a little shorter than the Hoch bullet . Douglas barrel is a 1:15 twist . Well about 80% of the bullets are key holed or tumbling . Using IMR 4227 powder 14.2 grs. I thought since the Saeco bullet was a little shorter stability would not be a problem . Getting a good seal in the barrel and engraving is 1/2 the base band . Any idea ? More 4227 powder ? Less powder ? Thanks
  
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calledflyer
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Re: Report on new Saeco mould 32-40
Reply #1 - Sep 15th, 2015 at 5:14pm
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Man, that's a tough one. The only thing that comes to mind is that the alloy might be a little soft for my own rifle in that caliber. At least, with that powder charge. Are you sure you haven't messed up the base of the bullet in that soft alloy with your seater? Well, I guess you have a project anyway. Good luck, and sorry I don't have more than condolences.
  
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Brudford01
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Re: Report on new Saeco mould 32-40
Reply #2 - Sep 15th, 2015 at 5:19pm
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Punched the bullet out with a cleaning rod from the muzzle and no bullet base deforming. Thanks
  
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John Boy
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Re: Report on new Saeco mould 32-40
Reply #3 - Sep 15th, 2015 at 5:38pm
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Bullets keyhole due to not being stabilized properly by the rifling.  Factors that influence this are bullet length, bullet diameter (relative to groove diameter), rate of twist of the barrel, and velocity.
* rule out bullet diameter- Douglas is .321 groove
I'd guess the bullet length in conjunction with velocity has a stability factor not conducive for a 1:15
Do some calculations ... (You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)
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Velocity (V) (feet per second): the velocity of the bullet. The higher the velocity, the more stable the bullet will be.

Length of Bullet (BL) (inches): overall length of the bullet. The longer the bullet, the more difficult it is to stabilize.

« Last Edit: Sep 15th, 2015 at 9:14pm by »  
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rkaires
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Re: Report on new Saeco mould 32-40
Reply #4 - Sep 15th, 2015 at 6:59pm
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Hi Brudford01,

That is a tough one. I'm shooting a Douglas .319 groove 15 twist barrel on my CPA. Recently I've been working with a Pope style bullet and so far they've been shooting very well. My bullet is actually slightly shorter and 5gr lighter than yours so I don't believe the 15 twist is an issue. The rifle is a .32-20CPA with 10.8gr 4100 with a pipe foam insulation wad at the mouth 1450fps.


Here is the bullet I'm using and some recent targets. All are ten shot groups.
« Last Edit: Sep 15th, 2015 at 7:07pm by rkaires »  

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Brudford01
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Re: Report on new Saeco mould 32-40
Reply #5 - Sep 15th, 2015 at 7:46pm
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Very nice . I do not think the 1:15 twist is an issue either.
For example , my .223 1:9 twist barrel will not stabilize a 62 gr. 223 bullet , it will stabilize a 55 gr. bullet . My .223 rifle with a 1:7 twist rate will stabilize the heavier bullet . Both bullets are the same length . So here we are talking purely about bullet weights of the same length bullets . Current and past knowledge has told us that a longer and heavier bullet will usually do better with a faster twist rate . The Saeco bullet is about 1/8" longer than the Hoch bullet and both are the same weight 200 gr. Both bullets cast around .322-.323 should be fine for the Douglas .321 groove diameter .I'am trying to wrap my mind around conventional wisdom here with no clear answer . So the only thing I'am left with is FPS, or pure bullet speed or lack of bullet speed. So back to the reloading bench . There is no reason that this Saeco bullet should not stabilize ! I just need to find the variable that is missing here . The Hoch bullet is great, but I have to say the Saeco base poor casts so nice, you have to work a little harder casting with a nose pour mold . Thanks
  
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Ciao998
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Re: Report on new Saeco mould 32-40
Reply #6 - Sep 15th, 2015 at 7:47pm
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Slug your bore, and bullets are too soft I reckon.

Tried 30-1 in my highwall and it didn't like it, and the bullet was too small, but running them at 20-1 helped noticeably.

John
  
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Re: Report on new Saeco mould 32-40
Reply #7 - Sep 15th, 2015 at 8:00pm
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Have shot that bullet in my Helm.  Has fifteen inch twist. Similar powder charge. 

Shoots good with 16-1 thru 60-1. 

Key holing? 
Hard to believe. Barrel heavily leaded? Squirrel storing nuts in barrel? You cast real crummy bullets?  

      Joe.  Undecided



       



  

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Re: Report on new Saeco mould 32-40
Reply #8 - Sep 15th, 2015 at 8:04pm
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Brudford01, for what it is worth I was shooting 16" twist Douglas barrel with
Barnett bullet 185 g. and .980 long at 25 to 1 lead, 15.5 g 4227 the old stuff.
The new 4227 seems to be .2 g slower.  Sometimes I would get slight tip at
200 yds but shot pretty well.  You may need more fps to get it to stabilize.  I 
have Savage .223 with 1 in 9 twist that I shot 600 yds with and it would stabilize
a 75 g vld bullet if I shot a case full of Varget.  I am free Friday if you are not
working.
  
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John Boy
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Re: Report on new Saeco mould 32-40
Reply #9 - Sep 15th, 2015 at 8:08pm
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Dave ... Opps!
This is the Powley Calculator for lead though I have used the posted one for lead...
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Other good stuff ... (You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)
« Last Edit: Sep 15th, 2015 at 8:14pm by »  
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Brudford01
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Re: Report on new Saeco mould 32-40
Reply #10 - Sep 15th, 2015 at 8:08pm
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Westerner, to answer your questions in order , no , maybe, and that has not been proven yet .
  
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rkaires
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Re: Report on new Saeco mould 32-40
Reply #11 - Sep 15th, 2015 at 8:17pm
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Brudford01,

I forgot to mention the alloy of my bullets are 20-1.

Bob
  

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gunlaker
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Re: Report on new Saeco mould 32-40
Reply #12 - Sep 15th, 2015 at 8:46pm
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My CPA with a 1:14 twist barrel will show some tipping at 200m when shooting that bullet with black powder, but nothing even close to keyholing.  I use 20:1.

If you knock out a bullet after seating it, is the bullet engraved evenly all around?  Maybe it's getting seated off center.

Chris.
  
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gunlaker
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Re: Report on new Saeco mould 32-40
Reply #13 - Sep 15th, 2015 at 8:54pm
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Bruford, here is an earlier thread I started when I was experiencing the worst tipping using Fg with that bullet in my rifle.  Maybe it'll be useful to you.

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Chris.
  
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Re: Report on new Saeco mould 32-40
Reply #14 - Sep 15th, 2015 at 9:45pm
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Brudford01 wrote on Sep 15th, 2015 at 8:08pm:
Westerner, to answer your questions in order , no , maybe, and that has not been proven yet .


I used wheel weights heated in a sauce pan on the kitchen stove when wife was gone, for BP Silhouette matches at Denver. Long time ago when first getting into BPCRS.  Some of my bullets would explode into dust half way to the target. I really impressed the other shooters. I heard one fellow say to another, "I couldn't cast bullets that bad if I tried".  Was good for a laugh. I know it can be done, I done it. 

         Joe. 
  

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