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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) 32-40, What's the best Twist? (Read 14092 times)
SSShooter
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32-40, What's the best Twist?
Sep 13th, 2015 at 7:17pm
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Recently picked up a nice Hepburn with DSTs that was lined down to a .22 Lovell R. Plan is to send the barreled action to John Taylor and have it put back as a 32-40, which is the original cartridge stamped on the barrel (all #'s match). Am thinking a 10" twist is what is normally recommended for heavier bullets, but want to check my memory. Thanks.
  

Glenn - 2x CPA 44 1/2 w/22LR (Shilen ratchet-rifled & Bartlein 5R rifled), 38-40RH & 38-55WCF (Bartlein 5R rifled) & 40-65WCF (GrnMtn 'X') barrels
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marlinguy
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Re: 32-40, What's the best Twist?
Reply #1 - Sep 13th, 2015 at 7:20pm
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Here's a good read:
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SSShooter
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Re: 32-40, What's the best Twist?
Reply #2 - Sep 13th, 2015 at 7:53pm
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Thanks. Looks like the 12" twist is the way to go. Especially as there is no such thing as "over stabilization" of a bullet.
  

Glenn - 2x CPA 44 1/2 w/22LR (Shilen ratchet-rifled & Bartlein 5R rifled), 38-40RH & 38-55WCF (Bartlein 5R rifled) & 40-65WCF (GrnMtn 'X') barrels
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JLouis
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Re: 32-40, What's the best Twist?
Reply #3 - Sep 13th, 2015 at 9:03pm
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Stabiliaztion is not the end all one should also be looking at over spinning the bullet which is detrimental to good accuracy. It baffles me why anyone would try to turn the 32-40 into something it is not when one could simply use the 33-47 that already has all of the better traits of what you are trying to create. In a 15 twist barrel and a 234gr. or a slightly heaver bullet it only takes 4 tenths more powder than a 32-40 to acheive a 1470fps. average and it already provides time proven extreme accuracy. Do as you wish its your money but please don't come back here after its done and talk it down the 32-40 has already been given a bad enough rap by those who have tried to improve on it with very minimal or no success. As it is still
one of the best choices for 200yd. competitive target shooting.

JLouis


  

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SSShooter
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Re: 32-40, What's the best Twist?
Reply #4 - Sep 13th, 2015 at 9:13pm
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If I were putting on a new barrel then I would consider the 32-47. However, as John will be 'restoring' a nice original barrel that is marked 32-40 from the factory, I'll stay with that and suffer the consequences and simply do my best with it. Hopefully, I will find a 200-220gr bullet and load that it likes.
  

Glenn - 2x CPA 44 1/2 w/22LR (Shilen ratchet-rifled & Bartlein 5R rifled), 38-40RH & 38-55WCF (Bartlein 5R rifled) & 40-65WCF (GrnMtn 'X') barrels
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Re: 32-40, What's the best Twist?
Reply #5 - Sep 13th, 2015 at 9:17pm
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SSShooter wrote on Sep 13th, 2015 at 7:53pm:
Thanks. Looks like the 12" twist is the way to go. Especially as there is no such thing as "over stabilization" of a bullet.


To paraphrase a quote generally ascribed to Leon Trotsky "You may not believe in over stabilization, but over stabilization believes in you."

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Dr Tom
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Re: 32-40, What's the best Twist?
Reply #6 - Sep 13th, 2015 at 9:27pm
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An overstabilized bullet will fly nose high during the downward portion of the arc of flight. The result is higher drag and a perhaps a smidgen of lift and, with spitzers, increased turbulent flow around the bullet. Not sure what this does to accuracy, but it is something that I try to avoid.
  
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JLouis
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Re: 32-40, What's the best Twist?
Reply #7 - Sep 13th, 2015 at 11:00pm
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Agree Dr Tom there beomes a point when you are no longer gaining anything and thats when you start going in the opposite direction in a hurry. None of it is anything new Mann proved it as well as a miriad of other things pertaining to cast bullet shooting for our benefit and yet there is probably less than a dozen individuals on this site who have studied his exstensive work yet they claim to know more while doing absoulutly nothing as exstensive as his work to substantiate their unfounded claims to fame? It is as if he wasted all those years, money and hard work for an unworthy cause that being us the ones who claim they are trying to achieve the upmost in cast bullet accuracy and the ones he was actually trying to serve!

JLouis
  

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Re: 32-40, What's the best Twist?
Reply #8 - Sep 14th, 2015 at 12:14am
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SSShooter I now understand your reasoning for keeping it a 32-40 as the barrel is so marked but what I don't understand is the 10 or 12 twist far from staying with the original configuration of the original twist rate. On one hand you are saying you want to keep it original to the markings on the barrel and on the other you are planning to do just the opposite? You would be better served to replace the barrel and if not the next fellow to own the rifle or the one there after is going to get something that is not what it is suppose to be per the original markings on the barrel! It just doesn't seem to be the right thing to do for the sake of others and in my mind it does not do the original barrel any well deserved justice.

JLouis
  

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MartiniBelgian
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Re: 32-40, What's the best Twist?
Reply #9 - Sep 14th, 2015 at 1:41am
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Guys, stop reading those artillery manuals - in order to get to that point, you're really talking about MASSIVE overstabilisation - which changing from 1:14 to 1:12 for sure won't be.
I'll bet it will peform pretty well indeed - and give him the flexibility for heavier bullet.
FWIW, my 1:15 30-20 works pretty well, and that 1:16 BPTR shoots lights out - both waaay too fast a twist.
And as to Mann - are you really following him, and shooting only pure lead bullets?   He also did prove that those were without question the most accurate...  Sorry, but F.W. Mann didn't write a bible.  Some good stuff in there, yes, he did debunk some myths.  but to consider it as the final work - no thank you.
  
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Re: 32-40, What's the best Twist?
Reply #10 - Sep 14th, 2015 at 1:53am
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Personally, I see nothing wrong with lining the barrel with any twist rate. If he wants to shoot the 1.290 long PJ bullet, he will need that 12 twist and it sure won't and can't be detrimental to the bullets flight (pun intended) as there have probably been more 250's shot in 32 cal with that bullet than any other bullet.

I would have chose a 14 twist, my self if 200 - 220 gr bullets are used.

As far as originality goes he can always say that a famous old gunsmith relined it with that twist rate, because he had the vision that long spitzer bullet would be the thing of the future.

It's going to be a reline and that will most likely be visable at one end or the other, it's not dangerous in anyway sure as heck, not a orginal barrel.

Regarding F W Mann, while his research is extremely commendable (I have his book and have read it twice), his accuracy has been exceeded by quite a bit. If you use his book to work up loads, to use in match shooting, you be at a considerable disadvantage.

Frank
  

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SSShooter
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Re: 32-40, What's the best Twist?
Reply #11 - Sep 14th, 2015 at 7:17am
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As the barrel has all ready been lined down to a .22, there will be no hiding that fact. Plus, the action is blued and the finished rifle will have it back to case-colored, so no hiding that, as well. However, having the cartridge match the original markings will be as close as it can get and the 12" twist will make it a better shooter. Per the twist-rate calculator I've been running (You need to Login or Register to view media files and links) the 12" twist works well with a 1.11" long 200gr bullet while a 14" or even a 13" twist does not.
  

Glenn - 2x CPA 44 1/2 w/22LR (Shilen ratchet-rifled & Bartlein 5R rifled), 38-40RH & 38-55WCF (Bartlein 5R rifled) & 40-65WCF (GrnMtn 'X') barrels
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gunlaker
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Re: 32-40, What's the best Twist?
Reply #12 - Sep 14th, 2015 at 10:25am
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Glenn, it may not matter when shooting smokeless, but my CPA ( i don't remember at the moment whether it's 1:14 or 1:15 twist ) will tip 200gr bullets in cold weather with black powder.  It would be intersting to see how a slightly faster twist would do.

Chris.
  
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Re: 32-40, What's the best Twist?
Reply #13 - Sep 14th, 2015 at 10:30am
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Chris,

If I may ask, what is your cleaning regime between shots with BP in your 32-40?  2 wets and a damp between shots i thought you once mentioned?  Oil/water emulsion?  Does it do whatever it needs to do?

Gert
« Last Edit: Sep 14th, 2015 at 10:36am by MartiniBelgian »  
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Re: 32-40, What's the best Twist?
Reply #14 - Sep 14th, 2015 at 12:45pm
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The bores on my schuetzen rifles are completely cleaned between shots.  Time is not a big concern so I use however many patches it takes.  I don't dry them, but the last patch that is run through is only very slightly damp.   I wipe with a Ballistol and oil mixture.   When shooting paper patched bullets from my schuetzen rifles I do dry the bores however.

Speeding up the bullet reduces tipping significantly.  I can shoot Fg in summer at higher elevations with minimal tipping.  Down on the coast I need FFg to minimize it but it's always present.   If I shoot Fg in winter at low elevation tipping is very evident.

I don't remember the exact charge weights as I throw them from a measure, but they are somewhere around 42gr.

If I'm only shooting at 100m I can shoot Fg fine without any tipping even in cold weather.

Chris.
  
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