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cases for black or smokeless... (Read 4779 times)

calledflyer Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 3602 Joined: Mar 9^th, 2015	cases for black or smokeless... Jul 13^th, 2015 at 9:19pm	Print Post
	I'd like to hear from the shooters that use both black and smokeless powder in one rifle about whether they keep separate sets of hulls for each type of powder or if they use them interchangeably. I don't use black, but it's part of our chosen field. Plus, many of us purchase cases second hand, so how could you tell?


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boats Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 7586 Location: Virginia Joined: Apr 23^rd, 2004	Re: cases for black or smokeless... Reply #1 - Jul 13^th, 2015 at 9:26pm	Print Post
	I have kept them separate but lately am shooting all smokeless and use cases that were used with black. Cleaned after to bright inside and out. Way back when we thought enlarged flasholes were the thing to do when shooting black. Gave it up and smashed my enlarged 45/70 cases to keep them out of circulation. High pressure smokeless load could,have caused trouble for somebody


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John Boy Ex Member	Re: cases for black or smokeless... Reply #2 - Jul 13^th, 2015 at 10:21pm	Print Post
	Quote: I'd like to hear from the shooters that use both black and smokeless powder in one rifle about whether they keep separate sets of hulls for each type of powder or if they use them interchangeably. The chamber and bore of *ANY* rifle will never know the difference between spent cases shot either with smokeless or black powder if they are cleaned in a rotary or vibrator tumbler so the inside/outsides a looking new and the primer pockets are spotless. It's the bore of a rifle that knows the difference between the different powders. Shoot smokeless reloads without cleaning the bore and then black powders - the BP foul in the bore will have a hard crust and accuracy will go in the toilet. So, brush the bore clean after shooting smokeless before shooting BP rounds and clean the cases too


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calledflyer Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 3602 Joined: Mar 9^th, 2015	Re: cases for black or smokeless... Reply #3 - Jul 14^th, 2015 at 10:17am	Print Post
	Thanks fellas, I was expecting the answer to be as you say, but worth a query to be sure. I would have to wait a long time to get that answer around here. Don't see many shooting black, and they are usually muzzle loaders. I keep my cases very segregated in order to monitor the use of each smallish batch. It has paid off by knowing the life of cases for each scenario- belted mags down thru thin walled pipsqueaks like .32-20 or hornets. Once sorted for weight etc they are kept in groups and recorded. Learned from benchrest days and my short stint in high power shooting back when it was possible for me to assume a prone position. haha


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westerner Frequent Elocutionist Offline deleted posts and threads record holder. Posts: 11575 Location: Why, out West of course Joined: May 29^th, 2006	Re: cases for black or smokeless... Reply #4 - Jul 14^th, 2015 at 11:35am	Print Post
	BP use many cases. Smokeless use only one case. Keep a couple extra new cases in my shooting box. If I was to use fixed smokeless many cases, makes no difference. Would load the same cases used for BP. Joe.

	A blind squirrel runs into a tree every once in a while.
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calledflyer Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 3602 Joined: Mar 9^th, 2015	Re: cases for black or smokeless... Reply #5 - Jul 14^th, 2015 at 12:25pm	Print Post
	Well, I got a few responses so far, and it's been informative. I was reminded in a PM that some bp shooters don't resize (we smokeless shooters don't always, either), and I'd forgotten the single-case, load at range part. Of course, the gun doesn't know the diff, but I thought the cases themselves might be differing from the stuff used. All together, it seems most don't sort them for the reason I had in my pea sized brain. That is, the possible weakening sometimes mentioned if cases get left dirty with the black. Thus, keeping the suspect (maybe) cases from the ones known to be untainted. Seems not to be a worry, so that's good to know. You can tell I know where my rifles came from, but will never go again while I'm the caretaker. You can never go home again? Good info, guys, it's nice to chat like this with ya.


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westerner Frequent Elocutionist Offline deleted posts and threads record holder. Posts: 11575 Location: Why, out West of course Joined: May 29^th, 2006	Re: cases for black or smokeless... Reply #6 - Jul 14^th, 2015 at 1:01pm	Print Post
	Try to keep my BP cases clean. Seems eventually, if left in storage long enough, they will corrode. Most of us using plain base lead bullets load low pressure. Easy on cases and old rifles. Joe.

	A blind squirrel runs into a tree every once in a while.
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boats Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 7586 Location: Virginia Joined: Apr 23^rd, 2004	Re: cases for black or smokeless... Reply #7 - Jul 16^th, 2015 at 9:57pm	Print Post
	I have had Canalured 45/70 cases used with compressed BP loads come apart at the seam, while using BP. Might want to think about using Cases that have had strong compression with less than case filling loads of smokless powder Boats


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calledflyer Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 3602 Joined: Mar 9^th, 2015	Re: cases for black or smokeless... Reply #8 - Jul 16^th, 2015 at 11:17pm	Print Post
	Boats, do you mean the pressure ring that forms inside the case near the juncture of the web and wall? If that's what you are referring to, for those shooting black that could be a concern. My cast bullet cases don't usually get those like my modern hotrod cases do.


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boats Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 7586 Location: Virginia Joined: Apr 23^rd, 2004	Re: cases for black or smokeless... Reply #9 - Jul 17^th, 2015 at 7:23am	Print Post
	Not in front of the web further up the case. Some 45/70 cases intended for smokless loads have a canalure rolled in to keep the bullet in place with small charges of smokless powder. It creates a weak spot that gets worse when loaded with compressed loads of black. Mine separated after many loadings, it's a extreme situation however when using cases with unknown history caution is advised. 45/70 can be many different things some load it to extreme pressure. Look at Paul Matthews Books, 45/70 cases he used would be time bombs. Boats


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calledflyer Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 3602 Joined: Mar 9^th, 2015	Re: cases for black or smokeless... Reply #10 - Jul 17^th, 2015 at 11:11am	Print Post
	OK, I knew of the cannelure used to prevent bullet slipping back. I was just checking which you referred to. Could it be caused by a wad hanging up on that spot? I even have some older Western (not W-W) .32-40 cases made with a ring like that. Must have been intended for use with jacketed bullets as well as leaden pills. Some cases like .32-20, .45 Colt, others also have these. Wonder if your separation would happen with black in those too? So much to learn, so little time- I'll be happy to get back out there when I can.


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Aonghas Ex Member	Re: cases for black or smokeless... Reply #11 - Jul 20^th, 2015 at 6:48am	Print Post
	Quote: Quote: I'd like to hear from the shooters that use both black and smokeless powder in one rifle about whether they keep separate sets of hulls for each type of powder or if they use them interchangeably. The chamber and bore of *ANY* rifle will never know the difference between spent cases shot either with smokeless or black powder if they are cleaned in a rotary or vibrator tumbler so the inside/outsides a looking new and the primer pockets are spotless. It's the bore of a rifle that knows the difference between the different powders. Shoot smokeless reloads without cleaning the bore and then black powders - the BP foul in the bore will have a hard crust and accuracy will go in the toilet. So, brush the bore clean after shooting smokeless before shooting BP rounds and clean the cases too Ultrasound baths clean brass best, and do not abrade the metal. I'm not sure whether or not they tend to work-harden the brass, though. -- Aonghas


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