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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Highwall cartridge drag marks (Read 10203 times)
Amoretti
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Highwall cartridge drag marks
Jul 5th, 2015 at 6:20pm
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I have a high wall in 40-70 SS that I just bought some brass for-never tried it previously.  When the breach is closed the action drags very heavily on the cartridge base at 6 o'clock leaving a noticeable furrow in the brass about 1/8" wide and quite deep.  Before I disassemble the gun does anyone have an idea what is dragging and how to repair?

Thanks, John in Wyoming
  
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Old-Win
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Re: Highwall cartridge drag marks
Reply #1 - Jul 5th, 2015 at 6:52pm
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Could be a couple of things.  Is the mark directly in line with the primer?  If so, check the length of the firing pin. It shouldn't stick out much more than .055".  Second, has the firing pin been worked on?  It could be that the timing is off on when the fp is retracted from the breechblock and it's still dragging on the brass. 3rd and probably the simplest; is the rim of the brass too thick but that doesn't sound like the kind of marks you're describing.  Bob
  
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bpjack
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Re: Highwall cartridge drag marks
Reply #2 - Jul 5th, 2015 at 7:55pm
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Easy to take apart.  Remove the firing pin ans make sure the socket is clean and it moves freely.  Check the breech block face for burrs around the pin hole.  Reassemble without the firing pin and see if it is still doing it.

Jack

That was my best Westerner impression.  How did I do Joe?
  

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Amoretti
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Re: Highwall cartridge drag marks
Reply #3 - Jul 5th, 2015 at 8:38pm
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Seems to me if the problem was the firing pin the mark would be at 12 o'clock-true?
John
  
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calledflyer
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Re: Highwall cartridge drag marks
Reply #4 - Jul 5th, 2015 at 8:47pm
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What old win is describing as the timing is correct. The firing pins in these rifles drag sometimes because of crud in the block, burrs on the parts-either block, firing pin, or both. Also, the action pins or the holes for them get sloppy and cause "delayed" retrieval of the firing pin. If your rifle is an older one, any or all of these things may be the culprit. If it's just a shining up of the brass it is still ok to shoot, but if it is digging a furrow in the cartridge case you may be in for a busted or mis-shaped tip. Also look at the nub on the link and the "wing" on the bottom of the fp for wear. One other thing to check is at the bottom of the barrel, where the rim of the case is recessed. If there is a shiny mark there the pin is dragging for sure. Clean it up and look at the parts, you'll figure it out. When it's good again, don't forget the lubrication. These are easy guns to get going again-usually. Best of luck.
  
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bpjack
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Re: Highwall cartridge drag marks
Reply #5 - Jul 5th, 2015 at 8:53pm
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If the firing pin is dragging, it will score a line at 6:00 as the block raises and lowers.  My 45-90 and 38-55 both show a very light scoring but not hard to close the action.   

Jack
  

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Amoretti
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Re: Highwall cartridge drag marks
Reply #6 - Jul 5th, 2015 at 9:10pm
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The brass is thick.  This is new brass from Buffalo arms and is made from 30-40 Krag parent brass.  To get the action to close at all we had to file the base thinner to even enter the shell holder.  How thick should the rim be?   Worry about taking too much off and messing up the head space.

I hate to be a dummy but it seems to me the case head at 6 o'clock should never pass over the firing pin, at least not from the primer pocket to the edge of the rim.  I understand that "walls" go over center so the breach block will rise slightly over center before settling into battery.  The mark is 1/8 wide and fairly flat bottomed.  Pretty wide and flat for a protruding firing pin.  Will just have to take it apart and see whats going on.

John
  
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Amoretti
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Re: Highwall cartridge drag marks
Reply #7 - Jul 5th, 2015 at 9:27pm
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Apologies to all!  Looked at the gun again and I had it exactly backward.  The firing pin will never cross 12 o'clock but will always cross 6 o'clock!!!!

So almost surely the firing pin is the culprit and I will disassemble the gun and see what's up.

Really feeling dumb.

Thanks to all,  John



Cheers, John
  
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oneatatime
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Re: Highwall cartridge drag marks
Reply #8 - Jul 5th, 2015 at 10:45pm
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Was it Remington brass?
  
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Amoretti
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Re: Highwall cartridge drag marks
Reply #9 - Jul 6th, 2015 at 8:41pm
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The brass is marked R-P which I assume stands for Remington Peters.

Buffalo Arms should tighten up their QC as the brass will not fit the shell holder-the rim is too thick and too big in diameter will have to put them in the lathe to correct.

John
  
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gunlaker
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Re: Highwall cartridge drag marks
Reply #10 - Jul 6th, 2015 at 9:00pm
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Aren't you using a shell holder for the .30-40 Krag?  I use that shell holder for my .38-50 Remington Hepburn based on th .30-40 case.

Chris.
  
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oneatatime
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Re: Highwall cartridge drag marks
Reply #11 - Jul 6th, 2015 at 9:43pm
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In my 40-60 Maynard (Krag) which was set up for W-W brass when I made some from R-P I had to thin all the bases as the rims were thicker by the depth of the head stamp letters.
  
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Old-Win
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Re: Highwall cartridge drag marks
Reply #12 - Jul 7th, 2015 at 9:11am
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One of the problems with the 40-70 brass is that nobody can agree on rim thickness.  There is the rim thickness of the original rifles, the Shiloh thickness, the 30-40 Krag thickness and those now using .405 Hornady brass.  Brass has to be tailored for individual rifles depending on what you have.  Buffalo Arms used to carry 3 different thickneses.   Bob
  
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Re: Highwall cartridge drag marks
Reply #13 - Jul 7th, 2015 at 2:14pm
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Old-Win wrote on Jul 7th, 2015 at 9:11am:
Buffalo Arms used to carry 3 different thickneses.   Bob   


And their website described each in detail.   

They now show 2 and only one still has detail.   
  
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Re: Highwall cartridge drag marks
Reply #14 - Jul 7th, 2015 at 7:31pm
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I've got a C-Sharps in .40-70 SS and It uses .405 Win. Brass. The Rim thickness is about .067"

Terry
  

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