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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Schuetzen Benchrest Techniques (Read 19618 times)
Bulseyetom
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Schuetzen Benchrest Techniques
Jun 18th, 2015 at 9:25pm
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Just received Randolph Wright's book on Schuetzen Rifles and was quite surprised to see the section on barrel clamps.  I remember reading about them in regular benchrest shooting near the turn of the last century but never gave them a thought since one piece stocks with 3" wide forearms arrived on the scene.  What is the typical method used at current matches?  If resting the barrel on bags, do you try to have the bag fully contain lateral movement of the rifle and slide directly backward?  How do you know how far back to place the rest and how do you maintain that position from shot to shot?  From my limited 6ppc benchrest shooting experience I know my best groups were fired when I was able to set the front and rear bags in perfect alignment so that recoil was truely inline with the sights and target and a simple push of the rifle back to the stop had me virtually ready to shoot again when the condition presented itself.  I tried in vain to find a video on-line to watch.  I am going to try to get to a match in July but the closest range is 4 hours away and it is very uncomfortable to travel that far pending a scheduled total hip replacement the end of July.  Thanks.  Dumb but happy Tom   Lips Sealed
  
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RSW
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Re: Schuetzen Benchrest Techniques
Reply #1 - Jun 18th, 2015 at 9:59pm
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Tom
Welcome to schuetzen. I hope you find it as fascinating as many of us on this forum who have been in the game for years.
The key word in your inquiry is traditional. That book's emphasis is on loading and shooting traditional type rifles, for which a barrel clamp front rest is appropriate. At some risk of over simplification, there are two camps in the schuetzen game. One camp shoots rifles that retain the look and feel of those used during the original schuetzen era, i.e., original or reproduction actions, splinter forestocks, tang peep sights, scopes with external adjustments, etc. (both the ASSRA and ISSA have rules governing traditional rifles). 
The other camp tends to the more modern actions and modern internal adjustment scopes, etc., this is the Open class and also has its set of rules. In the Open class, it is almost standard to have a wide forestock for bench shooting like those you are familiar with. There is no right or wrong of either of the two rifles classes, they just are.
The bench technique of which you write will serve you well in shooting an open class rifle. A traditional rifle my require a little more finagling to refine your technique but is essentially the same as what your are used to.
Included are two photos of the same rifle, top is set up for traditional and bottom photo for open class.
I hope this helps, at least in a general sort of way.
« Last Edit: Jun 18th, 2015 at 10:10pm by RSW »  

Randy W
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Bulseyetom
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Re: Schuetzen Benchrest Techniques
Reply #2 - Jun 18th, 2015 at 11:49pm
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Randy, it looks like the rest with the bag does not squeeze the side of the stock like I am used to.  Am I missing something in the photo?  Then the clamped rest looks like it just rides on top of the rest to allow it to slide during recoil.  Is that correct?  Pictures are worth a 1000 words that's for sure!  Thanks.  Tom
  
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Re: Schuetzen Benchrest Techniques
Reply #3 - Jun 19th, 2015 at 12:24am
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Tom
The front bag is firmly filled and the forestock is squeezed by the front bag but the rifle has been slid back until stopped by the pistol grip contacting the rear bag. This helps me keep the whole rig from moving while breech seating a bullet.
The barrel clamp setup slides back on the platform with that bar as a preventer keeping the clamp from coming off the platform rear. The platform has a peg on the front edge and the barrel clamp a V notch, so the rifle goes back into battery each time.
In either setup, I don't completely let the rifle free recoil. I place myself on the gun so that the butt plate stops on my shoulder after about an inch of recoil.
  

Randy W
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There are indeed two Americas. Simply put, it is not the haves and have nots. The two Americans are in reality divided into those who do and those who don't.
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Re: Schuetzen Benchrest Techniques
Reply #4 - Jun 19th, 2015 at 8:31am
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Tom
A lot of Benchrest technique is dictated by the shape of your stock. If you are shooting a traditional shaped stock with a slim forearm and a bobsled than you are going to want to set up like Randy is set up. The rifle comes forward on the front rest and a V in the sled is pushed a pin set in the plate to center the rifle for the shot. With a traditional stock, I believe that you have to control the recoil with your shoulder for best success. Some do shoot free recoil with a traditional stock but I have never been able to make it work better that way.
  If you are using a dedicated benchrest stock one with a buttstock with a toeline that is parallel with the bore of the rifle and a 3-inch wide forearm then you are shooting more like the high-power benchresters. The rifle comes to a stop in front of the front rest bag and the butt sits on the rear bag. The advantage of this style stock is that you can shoot heads up. This allows you to watch your wind flags to better gauge when you should let off your shot. In plain-based benchrest reading the wind is the difference between first place and also rans. 

40 Rod
  
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Re: Schuetzen Benchrest Techniques
Reply #5 - Jun 19th, 2015 at 11:16am
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Thanks 40 Rod.  I must agree with you on reading the wind!  The two hardest things I found in hipower benchrest were setting up the bags properly to make return to battery easy and then picking the condition for the first shot for score.  Not being a machinist by trade where would one look for a sled and clamp arrangement to buy?  My feeble mind has been trying to design something using a block of delrin as a base cut to fit in my current rest if I remove the bag and bag clamp.  Tom
  
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Re: Schuetzen Benchrest Techniques
Reply #6 - Jun 19th, 2015 at 1:12pm
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How much cheek weld do you use when shooting the trad. stock?
I shoot without a skid plate, and know that complicates things, since I have the torque to control with my shoulder-face contact. Sometimes it works, sometimes it don't. By the way, I'm a bag squeezer.
  
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Re: Schuetzen Benchrest Techniques
Reply #7 - Jun 19th, 2015 at 2:02pm
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"bag squeezer"
That's the way I shot bench rest with an offhand stock years ago. It was always a bit unpredictable as your hold consistency has a lot to do with accuracy. One technique that used to help controlling the rifle was holding the buttstock with your left hand at the point of cheek contact instead of squeezing the bag, plus using light contact with your right hand on the wrist. The two piece stocks of our single shot rifles makes the wrist surprisingly flexible so it does not take a lot of cheek pressure to flex action enough to effect bullet impact.
Now I use a barrel clamp front rest, no cheek contact on stock and overall accuracy is far superior. As an example, once in a while I shoot a 250 which had eluded me until I began using a barrel clamp front rest.
  

Randy W
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There are indeed two Americas. Simply put, it is not the haves and have nots. The two Americans are in reality divided into those who do and those who don't.
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Re: Schuetzen Benchrest Techniques
Reply #8 - Jun 19th, 2015 at 3:28pm
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My trigger hand is almost off the rifle. But I can't seem to see the sighting unless my head (fathead?) is supported somehow. I don't squeeze hard, just enough to make me stable, maybe not the rifle though, huh? I sort of think that rifle jump is one of my worst things in getting consistently even grouping. One of the biggest problems shooting these darn things off of bags is the need to disturb something while reloading the next shot. Maybe I need a AR- haha
  
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Re: Schuetzen Benchrest Techniques
Reply #9 - Jun 19th, 2015 at 4:38pm
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I returned to shooting off a bag several years ago and I had David at Protektor make me a custom bag that fits my barrel and I also increased the surface area the barrel rests on. The front bag is filled half and half with parakeet gravel and heavy sand that seems to have better control over the barrel harmonics. Also if the front bag was to hard I would get noticble barrel jump. Back bag base is rock hard the ears a tad looser. I do rest my cheek on the stock and cradle the butt stock with the thumb and first finger of my left hand. When I am shooting good it is because I am totally comfortable and relaxed. Extremely relaxed would describe how I hold the rifle, the cheek pressure, upper arm resting against butt stock and centered in the hooked plate and I place my thumb very gently on top of the pistol grip. My barrel likes being seated in the bag directly in front of the forearm and it is used as the return to battery stop. Rifle is a 32-40 CPA Schuetzen Jr., some refer to at as a model 52. Front bag is 6" wide, 5" in depth, barrel channel is 3/4" radius 1 1/2" deep and the bottom of the channel is 1" from the top of the mounting plate.

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Re: Schuetzen Benchrest Techniques
Reply #10 - Jun 19th, 2015 at 4:45pm
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Jerry VanWey of Raton New Mexico makes an extremely nice sled that fits both octogon and round barrels of varying sizes.

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Re: Schuetzen Benchrest Techniques
Reply #11 - Jun 19th, 2015 at 5:16pm
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Well, John, your description of technique sounds much like my own method. Or, what I try for at any rate. My hand is not on the stock, but on the lever's side. My front bag is not as low as yours lets the barrel rest. I use mine for any rifle I shoot, so not made for just one. Store bought rough leather. With talc.
Sometimes I just dispense with the rear bag, and don't see much change. This description is pertaining mostly to a single rifle that's been my latest challenge. Maybe I ought to stop the coffee and switch to brandy for relaxation. Could be closer to the truth than I realize, huh?
  
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Re: Schuetzen Benchrest Techniques
Reply #12 - Jun 19th, 2015 at 5:31pm
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I'm a bag squeezer too. Have yet to detect a twisting torching action when shooting. One minute the cross hairs are where I want them, pull the trigger and the rest is kinda loud and fuzzy. Mostly I concentrate on follow through as the loud fuzzy stuff is going on. When I do it right the bullets go where I want, a lot of the time anyway. 

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Re: Schuetzen Benchrest Techniques
Reply #13 - Jun 19th, 2015 at 5:35pm
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Again a picture is worth a 1000 words.  I can see how the barrel is clamped into the sled but how is the sled held in alignment on the rest during recoil and then returned to battery?  It appears that the notches must straddle something on the rest and that the V is for a positive stop.  Does it make a difference how close to the muzzle you clamp?  Tom   Undecided
  
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Re: Schuetzen Benchrest Techniques
Reply #14 - Jun 19th, 2015 at 6:12pm
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We'll see if a picture is worth a thousand words. Hopefully you can see how the rifle gets placed back into battery. In recoil, it slides fairly straight back, being held on track by the rear bag ears.
As to where to place the clamp, that's a whole 'nuther story. There is a dead spot in the barrel, usually about 6" back from muzzle. You can find it by holding the rifle off the floor with one hand on the wrist. With the other hand, LIGHTLY tap the barrel with a rubber mallet or hard wood stick. The barrel will make a faint ringing sound except at the dead spot. Tap at about 1" intervals from the forestock to muzzle and then back up to the forestock. Do this several times and you will find the dead spot. I put a small mark the barrel's top side at the dead spot with a Sharpie. Unless you know where it is, you can hardly notice it. That's where to place your clamp (bobsled). As you shoot the rifle, move your clamp a little forward and rear of that spot to see where you get the best groups.
  

Randy W
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There are indeed two Americas. Simply put, it is not the haves and have nots. The two Americans are in reality divided into those who do and those who don't.
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