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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Hadley Rear Sight (Read 29471 times)
harry_eales
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Re: Hadley Rear Sight
Reply #45 - Jun 10th, 2015 at 8:10am
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nuclearcricket wrote on Jun 10th, 2015 at 7:00am:
Ron that is really neat and really great work. However I do have a question, and I honestly don't mean to pick nits. When looking at  the pic that shows the rack and pinion, it looks to me like the pinion gear will only hit every other tooth on the rack. Am I seeing things right or is it just a little optical distortion from the pic?
Thanks
Sam


Sam,
I think it is an optical illusion with the close up pictures this often occurs. The Pinion wheel being closer to the camera lens than the rack makes it pinion look larger. I've had similar problems myself.

Ron, 
A very nice piece of work, I hope the steel version comes out as well.

Harry.
  
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ron
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Re: Hadley Rear Sight
Reply #46 - Jun 10th, 2015 at 9:46am
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harry

thank you for the credit, BUT I was not the make of the proto type. chipmaker was. I am just a retired machinist that enjoys see excellent workmanship.   

I am waiting for the drawings to be available from the archives.

ron
  
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Chuckster
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Re: Hadley Rear Sight
Reply #47 - Jun 10th, 2015 at 9:52am
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IIRC, A while back, Mike Hunter had a post about cutting a gear using a tap. Wonder if that method would work to cut the rack and pinion. Would take some fixtures.
Guess I am asking: How would cut the rack and pinion?
Chuck
« Last Edit: Jun 10th, 2015 at 12:14pm by Chuckster »  
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chipmaker
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Re: Hadley Rear Sight
Reply #48 - Jun 10th, 2015 at 2:27pm
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Ron
I think that I'll have to make at least one Hadley patent sight in steel but first I've got to finish a couple of Maynard rimfire barrels, so it may be awhile.
Sam and Harry
Yes, the gear mismatch is an optical illusion. The printing process is extremely accurate and the gears work properly.
Chuck
I've never cut a rack or pinion gear but there are good tutorials on YouTube using a form cutter or a single point cutter. Another possibility is to buy the gear and cut the rack. Finally I'll need to see what the cost of printing the gear in steel would be.
Maybe there is a forum member who has experience cutting rack and pinion gears, who could join the discussion?
Otto
  
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Deadeye Bly
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Re: Hadley Rear Sight
Reply #49 - Jun 10th, 2015 at 6:28pm
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To cut your rack and pinion you'll need two different cutters as the 14 tooth gear and the rack are at opposite ends of the gear spectrum The gear appears to be about a 62 Diametral Pitch. I doubt that any cutters are available and you'll end up making them. I haven't worked with gears for several years since I've retired but I had to reverse engineer a lot of gears in my career, none this small.

I've seen what you can do Otto, and I think you're up to it.
  
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chipmaker
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Re: Hadley Rear Sight
Reply #50 - Jul 10th, 2015 at 11:05pm
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Below are photos of a steel version of a Hadley rack and pinion sight based on the drawings created during this project.
Otto
  
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nuclearcricket
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Re: Hadley Rear Sight
Reply #51 - Jul 11th, 2015 at 8:38am
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Being well aware of the challenges that present them selves when trying to take pictures up close and in great detail, this sight project looks damn good. You did an excellent job.
Congrats
Sam
  
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Chuckster
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Re: Hadley Rear Sight
Reply #52 - Jul 11th, 2015 at 11:45am
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That is Excellent. Nice job and should work well. Would like a few details on how you cut the rack and pinion.
Chuck
  
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JCHannum
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Re: Hadley Rear Sight
Reply #53 - Jul 11th, 2015 at 2:05pm
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This aroused my curiosity also, particularly as to how the rack was cut.

This is my first look at this thread as I was on vacation when it was started. The 3-D printing aspect is particularly interesting. 

At a recent model engineering show, a gentleman was displaying a 1/3 scale 1911 Colt auto he made by 3-D printing cores for wax casting and then casting the parts. Minimal machining was required for final fit up and assembly.
  

Jim H.
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ron
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Re: Hadley Rear Sight
Reply #54 - Jul 11th, 2015 at 8:00pm
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Chipmaker

NICE work !!!!!!!!!!!! 

ron
  
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chipmaker
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Re: Hadley Rear Sight
Reply #55 - Jul 12th, 2015 at 1:28am
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Ron,Chuck,&NC
Thank you for your kind compliments.
Chuck and JCH
Machining the rack and pinion was an interesting project in itself. I'll describe how I cut the rack but should first state that I'm an amateur machinist, who knew nothing about gears two weeks ago. I certainly have no expertise in machining gears and would appreciate any corrections by professional machinists, on the methods described below.
The first step was to calculate the DP (Diametral Pitch) of the Hadley pinion. The # of teeth (14) +2 divided by the outside diameter of the gear (.271" to .260") gave a DP of 59-61 so I chose 60.
The second step was to calculate the center to center distance of the rack teeth. 3.1416 divided by 60 gave a distance of .052"
The third step was to determine the depth of cut. 2.157 divided by 60 (DP) +.003" gave me a depth of .040"
The preceding formulas are readily available in many machining reference books, YouTube videos, and the Internet.
The next challenge was finding or making the proper cutter. The rack cutter is easy to make but the tooth cutter is a form cutter and the making of this cutter would be a project in itself. This is further complicated by having 8 cutters per DP. So for this project I needed to make the two single cutters or purchase a 60 DP #1 and #7 cutter. As luck would have it, I found a 64 DP #1 cutter on EBay, which I thought would be satisfactory for this project.
The Maynard tang sight staff required moveable supports in the center section, in addition to the attachment at each end. I had to make an extended range cutter holder to mill the rack in the vertical mill and it may have been easier to do the job on the lathe or horizontal mill. Once the holding fixture and tooling was made, it took very little time to cut the 45 grooves .040" deep.
I think that if I were going to make another Hadley R&P sight, I'd select a DP for which cutters were readily available and use commercially available gears. The gear would be a little smaller than the original and the number of teeth on the staff would be different but it would work as originally intended and the differences would be hard to see.
The R&P mechanism could be printed in steel from the 3-D model. An estimate for the pinion portion alone was $215 which would make the sight expensive using this method.
Below are two additional close up pictures showing the rack and pinion portion of the mechanism.
Otto 

  
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Chuckster
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Re: Hadley Rear Sight
Reply #56 - Jul 12th, 2015 at 11:24am
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Otto,
Thank you for the details. Not into gears, so don't completely understand everything you wrote. but, obviously, you do. Excellent machining. You definitely have my attention.
Chuck
  
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Re: Hadley Rear Sight
Reply #57 - Jul 13th, 2015 at 2:59pm
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Thanks for the information. For a low speed/low power application of this sort, a bit of fudging with standard involute gear calculations can be tolerated. There are a couple of approaches that can be taken that don't require the use of involute cutters.

A tang sight has been on the back burner after a couple of less than optimum trials. The rack & pinion provides a simpler approach to elevation than the double start threads of other types.
  

Jim H.
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ron
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Re: Hadley Rear Sight
Reply #58 - Jul 14th, 2015 at 7:29am
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chipmaker. Don't worry about not knowing about figuring or cutting gears. Gear cutting is a special part of the trade. I have been in the trade for over 40 years and have and have not cut a gear or pinion. I learned about then in my apprenticeship, and where to find the needed information needed to do the work, text books. In todays world all of the info can be found on the net.

Again thank you doing the prove out of the drawings. Also thank you to ALL those that spent the time needed for this project.

ron
  
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Deadeye Bly
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Re: Hadley Rear Sight
Reply #59 - Jul 14th, 2015 at 9:13am
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Good Job Otto! I'm impressed. I knew you had skills but having the determination to accomplish this is a rare trait. You are indeed a talented craftsman.
  
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