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12.7x44R (CF) or 12.17x42R (CF) Information (Read 4310 times)

762x51 Participating Member Offline Posts: 40 Location: Greensboro, NC Joined: Apr 8^th, 2015	12.7x44R (CF) or 12.17x42R (CF) Information Apr 23^rd, 2015 at 8:55am	Print Post
	I have searched the internet for quite a while and cannot find any original detailed drawings for the 12.7x44R - also known as the 12.17x42R - including brass, projectile, and chamber. Does anyone here have drawings that they would share with me and the community? I have studied the Dutchman's site and don't find the drawings I'm looking for there. There is a load of info there and well worth visiting if you have an interest in this cartridge. Link: (You need to *Login* or *Register* to view media files and links) Also, does anyone have original specs or drawings of the original Danish and/or Swedish rifling? Thanks in advance for your help with this quest and attached are 3 drawings that I have found.
	« Last Edit: Apr 25^th, 2015 at 11:25am by 762x51 »
	"It is well that war is so terrible lest we should grow too fond of it." Gen. R.E. Lee CSA The United States Constitution (c) 1791. All Rights Reserved.
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Rebel Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 4292 Location: Rockets and Race Cars Joined: Mar 9^th, 2015	Re: 12.7x44R or 12.17x42R Information Reply #1 - Apr 23^rd, 2015 at 9:46am	Print Post
	I was looking at a Swedish Rolling block in this caliber. I'm probably mistaken, but it might be the 12.7 x 44R is centerfire and the 12.17 x 44R is rim. Not really sure.

	WARNING: This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. Let's Go Sonny!
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762x51 Participating Member Offline Posts: 40 Location: Greensboro, NC Joined: Apr 8^th, 2015	Re: 12.7x44R or 12.17x42R Information Reply #2 - Apr 23^rd, 2015 at 9:58am	Print Post
	Rebel wrote on Apr 23^rd, 2015 at 9:46am: I was looking at a Swedish Rolling block in this caliber. I'm probably mistaken, but it might be the 12.7 x 44R is centerfire and the 12.17 x 44R is rim. Not really sure. *Here is a good explanation of the differences from* (You need to *Login* or *Register* to view media files and links) Quote: 12.7x44R calibre designation (Black Powder Cartridge) by Jan van Gelderen ⌂ @, The Netherlands, Thursday, December 29, 2011, 21:40 (1211 days ago) On 31 august 2007 Mr Flatnes published the folling explantion about Swedish/Norwegian rolling block cartridge lengths: 44 and 42 are cartridge lengths in millimetres, and they are often followed by an R for rimfire. The reason why both 44 and 42 is used is this: In 1879 Norway adopted a new bullet, and as a result the point of impact changed. Because of the cost of altering the sights it was decided to increase the powder charge slightly to compensate for trajectory of the new heavier bullet. The increased powder charge in turn resulted in a 2 mm increase of the case length. It is a common misconception that the new Norwegian round couldn't be fired in the Swedish rifles. Nothing was done to the chambers, and the Swedish and Norwegian rifles had similar chambers from the start. OK, that sounds clear to me. I put it in a table to make it brief: Calibre designation \| Remarks ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12.17x42R (RF)...........Swedish/Norwegian military round 12.17x44R (RF)...........Norway chose to increase the powder of the load 12.7x44R (CF).............Swedish (and Norwegian?) Volunteers round What I do not understand is that the centre fire volunteers round is designated as 12.7x44R. Why is it not designated as 12.17x44R?

	"It is well that war is so terrible lest we should grow too fond of it." Gen. R.E. Lee CSA The United States Constitution (c) 1791. All Rights Reserved.
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762x51 Participating Member Offline Posts: 40 Location: Greensboro, NC Joined: Apr 8^th, 2015	Re: 12.7x44R (CF) or 12.17x42R (CF) Information Reply #3 - Apr 23^rd, 2015 at 10:04am	Print Post
	*And a reply to the post by a guy that knows a lot about this subject:* Quote: 12.7x44R calibre designation (Black Powder Cartridge) by Øyvind F. ⌂ @, Bergen, Thursday, December 29, 2011, 22:16 (1211 days ago) @ Jan van Gelderen The Norwegian army never used 12.7, 12.17, 12x44, 12.7x44, 12.17x44 or the other similar designations. The military cartridge was simply designated 12 mm Remington (from 1879). Before that, it was simply called 4''' (4 linjer). Nothing else! Regarding "12.17", this is the nominal bore diameter of the rifles, and originally it was never stamped on civilian centrefire cartridges. 12x44 and other designations were used. So as a rule of thumb, loose the "17" from all designations. Some manufacturers used "12x42" others "12x44", and I think some even used 12.7x44 or 42.

	"It is well that war is so terrible lest we should grow too fond of it." Gen. R.E. Lee CSA The United States Constitution (c) 1791. All Rights Reserved.
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Dutchman Ex Member	Re: 12.7x44R (CF) or 12.17x42R (CF) Information Reply #4 - Apr 24^th, 2015 at 12:21am	Print Post
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762x51 Participating Member Offline Posts: 40 Location: Greensboro, NC Joined: Apr 8^th, 2015	Re: 12.7x44R (CF) or 12.17x42R (CF) Information Reply #5 - Apr 24^th, 2015 at 9:52pm	Print Post
	Thanks for the photo Dutch - Wish they were still for sale here...

	"It is well that war is so terrible lest we should grow too fond of it." Gen. R.E. Lee CSA The United States Constitution (c) 1791. All Rights Reserved.
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