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Gas check bullets in old barrels (Read 4713 times)

TDW Full Member Offline Posts: 122 Location: Montana and Missouri Joined: Mar 21^st, 2010	Gas check bullets in old barrels Apr 17^th, 2015 at 5:32pm	Print Post
	Still struggling to find an accurate, fixed load for a 25-20 S.S. low wall with a pristine barrel. I have tried every bullet I can find in the 80-90 grain range. Smokeless or Black, all the same "fist size" groups at 50 yards. I am beginning to think it wants a lighter bullet (I'm just looking for a 50 yd squirrel and rabbit load). A friend has sent me an old Winchester mould that has been shaved off to produce a lighter bullet than it was originally cut for. I have not had a chance to cast from it yet. I have considered buying the Lyman 257420 mould but a friend said he thought the gas checks would wear out the 1900 era barrel prematurely. Does anyone have any experience about barrel wear with gas checks ? Thanks, Tom W.

	"The farther North you go, the more things you will run into that will eat your horse." S.P. Garbe, Absaroka-Beartooth Wilderness, 1980
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George Babits Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 1144 Joined: Sep 27^th, 2012	Re: Gas check bullets in old barrels Reply #1 - Apr 17^th, 2015 at 5:59pm	Print Post
	Hi Tom, I have been working with an original LoWall in 25-20 SS as well. The bore is dark but has lots of rifling. I bought a couple hundred 70 grain gas check bullets (hard cast) off GunBroker and have been using them. A lot depends on your twist. Mine is 16 or 17. With 7 grains of 4227 I can get 5/8" groups occassionally at 50 yards. I also have a 77 grain plain base antique mould and have cast some slugs with that but haven't had a chance to try them yet. Got your message and will get back with you on that one later this evening. George


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kodiak1 Junior Member Offline Posts: 72 Location: Alberta Territory Joined: Jun 16^th, 2009	Re: Gas check bullets in old barrels Reply #2 - Apr 17^th, 2015 at 6:45pm	Print Post
	You can shoot the bullets with out the gas checks on them. Ken.

	Love to Live, Live to Shoot
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Bent_Ramrod Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 1578 Location: Southern Arizona Joined: Feb 8^th, 2006	Re: Gas check bullets in old barrels Reply #3 - Apr 17^th, 2015 at 7:45pm	Print Post
	Bullets with gas checks will not wear your barrel. The Ideal 257420 is a good one. Sometimes the longer bullets are only marginally stabilized in the ~14" twist common to the old rifles in this caliber. The .25-20SS was originally developed for a 77 gr. bullet, and some of the writers at the time questioned the judgement of the ammunition companies' loadings of the 85-87 gr. bullets. This did not deter the ammunition companies, which kept that bullet as the standard loading. A good antique .25-20SS should be able to keep most of its shots within an inch at 50 yards, and within 2-1/2" at 100, with fixed ammunition.


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TDW Full Member Offline Posts: 122 Location: Montana and Missouri Joined: Mar 21^st, 2010	Re: Gas check bullets in old barrels Reply #4 - Apr 17^th, 2015 at 9:07pm	Print Post
	Thank you, gentlemen, I believe I will ask around and see if I can find some of the 257420 to try. I'm getting slight tipping and blah accuracy at 50 yds with the RCBS 85 grain, no matter how fast I push it. I have had some difficulty measuring the ROT in this tiny bore, but it looks like it is somewhere between 12 and 14. This is not a competition rifle with it's #1 barrel, but I know it will shoot better than I can see to at least "squirrel" distance. (You need to *Login* or *Register* to view media files and links) Tom W.

	"The farther North you go, the more things you will run into that will eat your horse." S.P. Garbe, Absaroka-Beartooth Wilderness, 1980
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George Babits Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 1144 Joined: Sep 27^th, 2012	Re: Gas check bullets in old barrels Reply #5 - Apr 17^th, 2015 at 9:44pm	Print Post
	Tom, That lyman 257240 is the bullet that I got off GunBroker. I think I paid about $30 for 200 of them. Bill Wells was the fellow's name. Goes by "22hornetfan." Email breammaster@embarqmail.com. I think his phone number is (910) 742-8355. I may still have some left if you can't catch him. The 77 grain mould I have is an antique Ideal mould (plain base) and the guy I got that from had a couple more of them for around $65-$75 each that were just a little heavier. I probably have his phone number around here somewhere. By the way, your LoWall looks a lot nicer than mine. George


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kootne Senior Forum Member Offline Posts: 476 Location: Libby, Mt. Joined: Mar 6^th, 2012	Re: Gas check bullets in old barrels Reply #6 - Apr 17^th, 2015 at 10:31pm	Print Post
	Tom, I've got a 257420 mold and a .258 sizing die I don't see using in the near future, I'll make you a loan if you want. Would like it back in a year or two. Dennis

	You can't make good decisions without good information.
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TDW Full Member Offline Posts: 122 Location: Montana and Missouri Joined: Mar 21^st, 2010	Re: Gas check bullets in old barrels Reply #7 - Apr 18^th, 2015 at 10:01am	Print Post
	Gentleman, Thanks for all the replies ! Kootne, I would very much like to borrow your mould (I have the sizer and top punch). I will happily pay shipping and insurance to get it here and back. I wont need it long...if the rifle likes the bullet, I will order the mould. PM me your mailing address and I will send a check for sh & ins. George, I will get back to you on your PM a little later today (my day off and I'm headed to the Billings gunshow)! I may try to order some of the hard cast bullets from your source, to compare to the 1/20 alloy I will cast from Kootne's mould. It is a great little rifle, and I just know it will shoot well if I can figure out what to feed it! Thanks to all for the great replies! Tom W.

	"The farther North you go, the more things you will run into that will eat your horse." S.P. Garbe, Absaroka-Beartooth Wilderness, 1980
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calledflyer Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 3945 Joined: Mar 9^th, 2015	Re: Gas check bullets in old barrels Reply #8 - Apr 18^th, 2015 at 1:07pm	Print Post
	I shoot gas check bullets sometimes. Never in a bore that small since I never had the pleasure. However, I find no difference in barrel crud using them, so I don't think they do much to the inside of the barrel. They may protect the bullet in some cases, but how would you know? I have also tried the bullets without the checks and seen little difference in performance. Just my observation, others seem to think the practice is foolish. This was using an old Ideal 319295 mold.This was also done using a Lee double cavity mold with one cavity reamed to remove the check part. Using the same loads the same results were arrived at with each cavity. I didn't keep this up very long since I hate the aluminum mold and don't cast at a rate that keeps any double hot enough. But, the results with that bullet weren't good enough to warrant using either bullet. Checks neither helped nor hurt in this case. You may get good results trying both ways. Pat


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