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Treatise on Pistol Powder Usage (Read 22671 times)

RoyB Oldtimer Offline Posts: 838 Location: Dartmouth, MA Joined: Mar 28^th, 2011	Treatise on Pistol Powder Usage Mar 23^rd, 2015 at 7:19pm	Print Post
	One of the best articles I've ever read on using double based pistol powders in rifle cartridges. I've been using Unique with fantastic accuracy in 45-70 and 38-55 for years. Now I know why this powder works so well in these big cases! (You need to *Login* or *Register* to view media files and links)
	« Last Edit: Mar 23^rd, 2015 at 7:41pm by RoyB »
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RoyB Oldtimer Offline Posts: 838 Location: Dartmouth, MA Joined: Mar 28^th, 2011	Re: Treatise on Pistol Powder Usage Reply #1 - Mar 23^rd, 2015 at 7:41pm	Print Post
	Some info from his site to back up the claims (You need to *Login* or *Register* to view media files and links) (You need to *Login* or *Register* to view media files and links)

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marlinguy Frequent Elocutionist Offline Ballards may be weaker, but they sure are neater! Posts: 17968 Location: Oregon Joined: Feb 2^nd, 2009	Re: Treatise on Pistol Powder Usage Reply #2 - Mar 24^th, 2015 at 11:01am	Print Post
	I've used all but 700x for decades, and found they suit my uses well. Occasionally I find another reloader who's horrified that I use these powders. Still controversy over the use of these pistol and shotgun powders in long guns.

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RoyB Oldtimer Offline Posts: 838 Location: Dartmouth, MA Joined: Mar 28^th, 2011	Re: Treatise on Pistol Powder Usage Reply #3 - Mar 24^th, 2015 at 11:51am	Print Post
	What he states about flat kernel double based powders makes all the sense in the world. Non-compressible discs seems to add a level of safety.

	Roy B Dartmouth, MA (You need to *Login* or *Register* to view media files and links)
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Adrian Full Member Offline Posts: 122 Joined: Mar 2^nd, 2015	Re: Treatise on Pistol Powder Usage Reply #4 - Mar 24^th, 2015 at 1:48pm	Print Post
	I made a great leap of faith and trusted that web page when developing loads for a 30-30, with cast bullets and 8 grains of Unique. I have a piece of paper with a 0.8" - 20 shot group fired at 50 yards with hunting sights. I fired about 800 shots without ill effects. I also trusted, and i am glad that i did, a friend who suggested 8.5-ish grains of Unique in the 32-40 and 14-ish grains of Unique in the 45-70 ["ish"= +/-0.5 grain). Thousands of rounds later, which i would not have fired had it not been for the low expense and recoil of aforementioned loads, i am happy.


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frnkeore Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 7621 Location: Central Point, OR 97502 Joined: Jun 16^th, 2010	Re: Treatise on Pistol Powder Usage Reply #5 - Mar 24^th, 2015 at 3:57pm	Print Post
	In support of this discussion I offer the following target. It was shot from a 30/40 HW with a case of reduced capacity. Shot at 100 yards, BSed. The case is solid bronze, with a .310 hole back to the primer pocket and 2.8 cc's capacity. The bullet is the lower one. The "M" stands for the modified spitzer nose that I put on it. But, you also have to remember (who can forget ) that all the former SS records have been surpassed, mostly with smaller cases (case capacity/bore ratio) using ball powders. Most people shy away from flake powders because, a lot of them (like me) load at the bench and get larger SD with thrown charges of flake powders. That said, the posted target was shot with thrown charges from the bench Frank

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RoyB Oldtimer Offline Posts: 838 Location: Dartmouth, MA Joined: Mar 28^th, 2011	Re: Treatise on Pistol Powder Usage Reply #6 - Mar 24^th, 2015 at 5:12pm	Print Post
	Frank , Is there any way we can see a picture of that cartridge? It sounds interesting. Did you turn it from solid bronze? Sounds like it has a very thick base bringing the powder closer to the bullet?

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John Boy Ex Member	Re: Treatise on Pistol Powder Usage Reply #7 - Mar 24^th, 2015 at 5:19pm	Print Post
	Quote: I've used all but 700x for decades, and found they suit my uses well. Quote: "In 1962 a powder called "Hi Skor" was brought out by DuPont. It was the first of the double based, fast burning, flake type powders for shotshell to be made by DuPont. It is the parent of Hi Skor 700X. At about 1964, Hi Skor became Hi Skor 700X with only minor changes in burn speed to the powder." I "happened" on a 8# tin of Hi-Skor which was introduced as a pistol powder and lucked out finding a 1962 one page loading data for handgun reloads, ie 357 - 38 Spl to 45 Colt. For shot shells, it has the same loading data as Red Dot


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frnkeore Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 7621 Location: Central Point, OR 97502 Joined: Jun 16^th, 2010	Re: Treatise on Pistol Powder Usage Reply #8 - Mar 24^th, 2015 at 5:32pm	Print Post
	I don't have a picture of it but, it just looks like a standard 30/40 on the out side. It also has a small primer pocket. I used standard SAAMI chamber dimentions to make it. I didn't have any fit problems. If you do, remove metal until it does fit. As long as the rim is think enough, the rest will take the form of the chamber after firing about 20 - 50 rounds, depending on chamber pressures. It was made by drilling the bronze with a 19/64 drill to 2 1/16 (tip of drill), leaving 1/4" from the point to the back of the case. That leaves a little stronger case head.I then ream it to the bottom of the hole with a .310 reamer. I also made one out of SS (303) with a .310 neck and only a 1/4" hole back to the primer pocket. It's capacity is 1.9 cc's. You have to make the necks, normal thinkness or, they won't seal. Frank

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Adrian Full Member Offline Posts: 122 Joined: Mar 2^nd, 2015	Re: Treatise on Pistol Powder Usage Reply #9 - Mar 24^th, 2015 at 5:40pm	Print Post
	Frank, i see how Unique would be almost impossible to measure well trough a powder measure. I use an electronic scale, a Lee dipper, and i trickle the last 0.1 grain onto the scale with a RCBS tickler. Fast enough for me, and since i load one at a time and seat bullet, i avoid the danger of double charging, while my charges are all identical to the milligram.


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John in PA Oldtimer Offline Posts: 590 Location: Hollidaysburg, PA Joined: Nov 3^rd, 2009	Re: Treatise on Pistol Powder Usage Reply #10 - Mar 24^th, 2015 at 6:48pm	Print Post
	In reading the article, I noticed that the emphasis seemed to be on loads that would perform well no matter how the powder was oriented in the case. I did not notice any mention of a tuft of dacron fiberfill or the like over the powder charge. Any comments on experiences with or without this addition? For many years it seemed that this was a common recommendation for low loading density charges of fast burning powders in large volume cases. (BTW, extremely fine article, thanks for posting, Roy!!)

	John Wells Hollidaysburg, PA Peabody and Peabody-Martini's Wanted!
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Adrian Full Member Offline Posts: 122 Joined: Mar 2^nd, 2015	Re: Treatise on Pistol Powder Usage Reply #11 - Mar 24^th, 2015 at 7:50pm	Print Post
	John, I believe that the suggested explanation for reduced charges of fast burning disc shaped powder working well was that such powder contains nitroglycerin. When hit by pressure and flame generated by primers, the contents of the case form a uniform blend of something, thus generating uniform velocities of bullets. I tend to agree. On numerous (more than 5) occasions i have compared identical loads of Unique, with and without fillers. It is common for me to shoot 10-15 shots over the chronograph and get exact same velocities. With 8.5 grains of Unique, fixed cartridge, i get 1,370 fps, over and over again, until i have to check the chronograph, just to make sure that it is working right. With fillers, i get 50-80 fps variations, and the loads are not as accurate. I did not use cream of wheat, but various fibers. These, in 32-40. In the 45-70 i has similar experiences.
	« Last Edit: Mar 24^th, 2015 at 7:55pm by Adrian »

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marlinguy Frequent Elocutionist Offline Ballards may be weaker, but they sure are neater! Posts: 17968 Location: Oregon Joined: Feb 2^nd, 2009	Re: Treatise on Pistol Powder Usage Reply #12 - Mar 24^th, 2015 at 9:35pm	Print Post
	John in PA wrote on Mar 24^th, 2015 at 6:48pm: In reading the article, I noticed that the emphasis seemed to be on loads that would perform well no matter how the powder was oriented in the case. I did not notice any mention of a tuft of dacron fiberfill or the like over the powder charge. Any comments on experiences with or without this addition? For many years it seemed that this was a common recommendation for low loading density charges of fast burning powders in large volume cases. (BTW, extremely fine article, thanks for posting, Roy!!) Unique and the other powders mentioned don't seem to be position sensitive. When I was testing loads in my .38-55 and .45-70 using Unique, I tried pointing the barrel up before each shot, pointing it down, and even shaking the cases to level the powder charge. Regardless of which position the powder was in, the velocities stayed very close, and groups also stayed good. I've never used any filler of any sort with Unique.

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marlinguy Frequent Elocutionist Offline Ballards may be weaker, but they sure are neater! Posts: 17968 Location: Oregon Joined: Feb 2^nd, 2009	Re: Treatise on Pistol Powder Usage Reply #13 - Mar 24^th, 2015 at 9:39pm	Print Post
	frnkeore wrote on Mar 24^th, 2015 at 3:57pm: In support of this discussion I offer the following target. It was shot from a 30/40 HW with a case of reduced capacity. Shot at 100 yards, BSed. The case is solid bronze, with a .310 hole back to the primer pocket and 2.8 cc's capacity. The bullet is the lower one. The "M" stands for the modified spitzer nose that I put on it. But, you also have to remember (who can forget ) that all the former SS records have been surpassed, mostly with smaller cases (case capacity/bore ratio) using ball powders. Most people shy away from flake powders because, a lot of them (like me) load at the bench and get larger SD with thrown charges of flake powders. That said, the posted target was shot with thrown charges from the bench Frank Wow! Nice target Frank! I had one 5 shot group with my Ballard in .38-55 that was under .75" at 100 yds. using Unique and a 255 gr. cast lead bullet. But after numerous attempts, I've never repeated it again. I haven't found any issue getting accurate measured charges with my powder measure using Unique, Red Dot, or Green Dot? I always have issues with stick powders, but these flake powders don't seem to give me problems.

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.22-5-40 Oldtimer Offline Posts: 826 Joined: Feb 13^th, 2010	Re: Treatise on Pistol Powder Usage Reply #14 - Mar 24^th, 2015 at 10:13pm	Print Post
	I have a question on using Unique for reduced cast bullet loads...I have a Watson .450/.400 3 /14" Farquharson. Built in 1902 & proofed for the heavy 60gr. Cordite-400gr. jacketed bullet. I am not so much as concerned about it's action/barrel strength..but my concern is for the age of the stock...trying to find an accurate, low recoil load for 50yd.-100yd. target shooting. I have tried SR4759. AA5744, TrailBoss, 4198, 3031..these all produce very heavy recoil..even the start loads. Would it be safe..or even feasable to use such a fast burning powder as Unique in this huge case? Where would I start as far as starting loads? I have .411 cast bullets from 300-400grs. both P.B. & G.C. Thanks alot!


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