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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Muzzle rests (Read 29039 times)
RSW
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Re: Muzzle rests
Reply #30 - Mar 24th, 2015 at 9:03pm
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ledball
The 6" wide limit was derived at through no small amount of discussion and consideration of alternatives, including no limits. The size limits got started as a result of a shooter wanting to use a muzzle rest that weighed about 20 pounds. The board of directors decided limits were in order.
You have a point about why not 6 1/2" but then why not 6 1/2 feet?
  

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beltfed
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Re: Muzzle rests
Reply #31 - Mar 24th, 2015 at 9:30pm
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Can I presume that the sled/muzzle rest is attached
at the null point of the barrel? 
Or to put it another way, it seems to me the attachment 
of the muzzle rest may affect the harmonics of the 
barrel- favorably or unfavorably depending on where it is clamped on.
beltfed/arnie
  
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Re: Muzzle rests
Reply #32 - Mar 25th, 2015 at 10:34am
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Here is the muzzle rest that I made for my CPA 44 1/2. It works well to control the front end of the rifle. Some of us old farts can no longer do offhand for health reasons. It is just under 6" wide and is about 3/4 of a pound in weight. Having shot Heavy muzzle loading bench guns for many years I have seen just about everything attached to the muzzle of guns for a rest. If someone wants to strap an old sink on their rifle it is OK with me. If it is what they want to use I see no harm in it. 
  
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QuestionableMaynard8130
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Re: Muzzle rests
Reply #33 - Mar 25th, 2015 at 11:21am
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That looks like a pretty typical of the simple solid effective DIY muzzle rests I have seen on the range. 
Some are more elaborately machined and/or of different materials. But all are usually more or less that size in terms of height, width, and length and shot off a similar front platform.
It's not really that different from the Pope version and operates on the same principles,  a bit larger and bulkier and with round stock for the "feet" rather than the flat base of the Pope device.
The Pope device we consider a muzzle-rest was the muzzle rest portion of a simple machine rest that incorporated an adjustable action support that allowed a positive repeatable return-to-battery.  It is mounted on a wood base that has a row of drilled holes extending back for the muzzle end that are tightly sized to hold a locator peg that is engaged by a notch on the front of the muzzle rest.  I believe that accurate brass/bronze replicas of the Pope front rest have been produced in the past.  I just missed out on picking one up at one of the EG matches last year.
  

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Re: Muzzle rests
Reply #34 - Mar 25th, 2015 at 12:00pm
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GeorgeC wrote on Mar 24th, 2015 at 8:53pm:
Jeff_Schultz wrote on Mar 22nd, 2015 at 6:24pm:
  If you can make one that violates the ASSRA rules, I'd sure like to see it! Grin


True dat.  Some time rules do get confusing.  So i would be legal to have the typical  Hart rest and a front leather sand bag that I used to use in BR matches or not?

  That is perfectly acceptable.
  

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QuestionableMaynard8130
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Re: Muzzle rests
Reply #35 - Mar 25th, 2015 at 1:40pm
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I just found the earlier discussion that contains the  photos of the replica Pope rest. 
The photo of the muzzle-rest is with the 1st post on the top of the 2nd page.  
   
(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)
num=1410028408/15

Note that allen-head caps crews were not used on it  Grin

Re clamping position:   my experience to date has been with heavy stiff barrels on 22rf rifles.   On them, the position does not seem to be particularly critical. Ammo selection, conditions, and rifle holding technique have more impact on accuracy----and probably mask any variable created by the muzzle rest.   once I transition to using it for load devilment for centerfire offhand rifles I may find a different situation.

Edit:  I just noticed that ought-to correct substituted "load devilment" for my intended "load development"  but since it may well be more accurate than not I'll let the unintended humor stand Grin
« Last Edit: Mar 26th, 2015 at 9:07am by QuestionableMaynard8130 »  

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40_Rod
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Re: Muzzle rests
Reply #36 - Mar 26th, 2015 at 8:54am
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In light of RWS post the answer seems obvious. If you plan on shooting a variety of events your Bobsled should be no wider than 6” and no higher that 3”. That way you are legal in both organizations.

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Re: Muzzle rests
Reply #37 - Mar 26th, 2015 at 2:11pm
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Assra can go no farther without adopting a limit on the width of a muzzle rest, I propose the width be no longer than the width of the bench (about 3 feet ) longer than this would probably wipe your buddy's bench off during recoil. How-about a 6 inch muzzle rest with outriggers.  Ledball
  
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QuestionableMaynard8130
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Re: Muzzle rests
Reply #38 - Mar 26th, 2015 at 7:13pm
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Paul,   I'm more concerned about the weight.  Those solid oak planks are getting old.  By the time you add up the weight of the tool / shooting boxes, lead filled front rests, powder canisters and measures, scope stands and scopes, boxes of bullets, "heavy-sand" (If not lead dust) filled bags plus some rifles that have to be using 30 pounds we must be using their limits.  Then there is the not inconsiderable weight of the shooters leaning on the tops.
I'm afraid that if we get into a muzzle rest- "arms race"  we are going to get over-sized rests made of depleted uranium, tungsten, or that ultra heavy unobtanium made of condensed dark matter.    We are going to have to raise match fees in order to finance replacing the bench tops with 4 inches of steel reinforced concrete. Cheesy
  

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Re: Muzzle rests
Reply #39 - Mar 26th, 2015 at 9:10pm
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DW, you've got a handle on this muzzle rest thing, you're seeing bad things coming way down the road. What do you think about the outriggers, I thought it was a great idea.   Ledball
  
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Re: Muzzle rests
Reply #40 - Mar 26th, 2015 at 10:40pm
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Outriggers with deer whistles on the ends. Perfect for target shooting at Cody. Well, woulda. History now. 

       Joe.
  

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Re: Muzzle rests
Reply #41 - Mar 27th, 2015 at 2:55am
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If sendo's original question is to compete with modern BR stocks with a traditional schuetzen stock, I would suggest making a wide forearm rather than using muzzle rests.  I can post a picture of my Ballard if that is the intention.  IMO, muzzle rests will always be at a disadvantage against modern style stocks. But, it is more important to shoot flintlock than to win matches  Cheesy I'm sure that theory applies to schuetzen rifles, flyrods and dry flies too  Wink Grin
  

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Re: Muzzle rests
Reply #42 - Mar 27th, 2015 at 3:36am
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It's a lot of fun messing around with muzzle rests and sleds and stuff. Maybe Sendaro makes it work. More power to him. When that fun has been had it's off onto another area of vintage SS fun. 

Flintlock? Undecided

Joe.
  

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QuestionableMaynard8130
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Re: Muzzle rests
Reply #43 - Mar 27th, 2015 at 9:18am
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Sorry, non-breechloaders are not allowed in ASSRA matches, though I had been seriously tempted to borrow a Ferguson rifle from a buddy and show up with it at a match just to make heads spin Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy. Building a match grade target Ferguson is on my bucket list of projects.

Personal opinion/speculation: I'm not sure that the outrigger sled-runner style rest won't create problems of their own when it comes to adjusting for conditions. We tend to adjust for conditions by tweaking the front rest.
With long flat runners with a long solid contact surface on a flat bearing surface I think it could bind on elevation adjustments. 
As part of a semi-machine rest for ammo testing I think it would work well. Under match conditions it might be different. 
 
My personal use, at the current time, is for ammo check and sight-in adjustment for offhand shooting only. I simply want the stability they offer to my euro-schuetzens with their typical stock style. Mine is small and light enough I can still pick it up and shoot offhand with it attached to the barrel. It just helps make the rifle a little muzzle heavy--which I like. a larger more massive muzzle rest would have to be removed before I could shoot it offhand. that'd be a PITA and it might or might not affect the accuracy. 

to summarize my opinion. I believe that the muzzle rest adds most value to the offhand shooter who is using a schuetzen style rifle. 
Perhaps it may help someone who is shooting a traditional class rifle in the benchrest matches. 
I suspect it has little of value to add to the shoot who is shooting in a more "unlimited" (in the ASSRA/ISSSA etc context) bench-rest competition.

again JMHO
« Last Edit: Mar 27th, 2015 at 9:27am by QuestionableMaynard8130 »  

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Re: Muzzle rests
Reply #44 - Mar 27th, 2015 at 5:33pm
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QuestionableMaynard8130 wrote on Mar 27th, 2015 at 9:18am:


Personal opinion/speculation: I'm not sure that the outrigger sled-runner style rest won't create problems of their own when it comes to adjusting for conditions. We tend to adjust for conditions by tweaking the front rest.
With long flat runners with a long solid contact surface on a flat bearing surface I think it could bind on elevation adjustments. 
As part of a semi-machine rest for ammo testing I think it would work well. Under match conditions it might be different. 
 


I fiddled around with a couple of them on my Stevens-Pope for a couple years. I found that it takes such a heavy shoulder into the stock, any minor adjustments are quite simple.  Move the rear of the rifle.  The disturbance of the rear bag is no longer critical as it is with a modern BR style set up.
  

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