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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Muzzle rests (Read 29002 times)
Sendaro
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Muzzle rests
Mar 22nd, 2015 at 11:05am
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Greetings to all that review my question, 
 
     I seek information about an item that attaches to the rifle barrel as and aid to shooting bench rest. It is referred to by different names such as, a muzzle rest, anti-cant device, and bob sled. Have been told by some that they are allowed in ASSRA matches and by some that they are not. Would like to know if they are legal in the matches and what they should look like to make them compliant to the rules. Have seen a few photos of the old ones that Pope made. I'd like to make one but want to stay within the rules. Please advise.

                                thanks, Sendaro
  
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KAF
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Re: Muzzle rests
Reply #1 - Mar 22nd, 2015 at 11:25am
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That is covered in the rules listed on this site.


  
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Sendaro
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Re: Muzzle rests
Reply #2 - Mar 22nd, 2015 at 12:08pm
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OK,  I found the rule PDF file. Where in the rules would it be covered? Please advise.

                         thanks, Sendaro
  
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Kurt_701
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Re: Muzzle rests
Reply #3 - Mar 22nd, 2015 at 12:15pm
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Section 2.91:  Sandbags and Rests 
A sandbag or shaped rear rest sand filled bag made of leather or canvas may be used under the toe of the butt stock. An anti-cant device (bob-sled) similar to the Pope style muzzle rest or the one described in Mann’s book is permitted. Also a spirit level or sight attached to the barrel is permitted. A simple stop may be attached to the front rest as an aid in realigning the rifle for the next shot. This may be contacted by the muzzle rest or the forearm at the discretion of the shooter if used at all. The front rest assembly and rear bag may not be connected mechanically or tied together. The shooting bench top surface is the only common connection between the two that will be allowed. 
   

I presume you are talking about this type of rest.
Kurt
  

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Sendaro
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Re: Muzzle rests
Reply #4 - Mar 22nd, 2015 at 5:54pm
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Kurt 701, I seen one in a book by Robert Walack with what looked like out riggers or sled runners. I believe that is why they called it a bobsled. I have to research Mann's book and find the description that is within. I have a copy of that book, and will start the research. I don't like the one in the photo. It does appear to be well made but I believe that the one I seen with the out rigger/runners may be more to my liking ( if it is legal for match use). Thanks for the reply.

                           Sendaro
  
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Jeff_Schultz
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Re: Muzzle rests
Reply #5 - Mar 22nd, 2015 at 6:24pm
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  If you can make one that violates the ASSRA rules, I'd sure like to see it! Grin
  

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Dales
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Re: Muzzle rests
Reply #6 - Mar 22nd, 2015 at 6:44pm
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So a forearm can only be 3" wide but a sled has no width restrictions ?
Dales
  
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Jeff_Schultz
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Re: Muzzle rests
Reply #7 - Mar 23rd, 2015 at 8:22am
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Dales wrote on Mar 22nd, 2015 at 6:44pm:
So a forearm can only be 3" wide but a sled has no width restrictions ?
Dales

  That is correct.
  

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Sendaro
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Re: Muzzle rests
Reply #8 - Mar 23rd, 2015 at 9:18am
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Hi Jeff, I have posted two photos of barrel rests that I'm working on. The first photo shows a barrel mounted brace with a 3" wide x 6" long base plate. When I asked about this one I was told that it would not be allowed in the traditional class. So in the second photo you will see a prototype that is in the making. It has two runners on the bottom as the Pope one that I seen in a book. Would a barrel rest like this be allowed? It is not finished yet, and will undergo some refinement in it's appearance. Please advise.

                            Sendaro
  
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KAF
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Re: Muzzle rests
Reply #9 - Mar 23rd, 2015 at 9:39am
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The fly in the ointment in the  rule on anti cant device I think would be:

An anti-cant device (bob-sled) similar to the Pope style muzzle rest or the one described in Mann’s book is permitted.


I am thinking that Popes sled and the one described is only around 3 or 4 inches in width.
The question on the width of the forearm made me think a bit on the subject.

  
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Jeff_Schultz
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Re: Muzzle rests
Reply #10 - Mar 23rd, 2015 at 9:41am
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  I don't see anything wrong with the second one.
When were socket head capsrews first used? Undecided
  

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QuestionableMaynard8130
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Re: Muzzle rests
Reply #11 - Mar 23rd, 2015 at 10:17am
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Then there is the catch phrase "in the spirit of" which is real hard to define.
In the context of this specific thread    I'd say that the first example is less likely to be so than the second. 

Remember too that the "traditional class"as such is more of a badge of honor in ASSRA (as practiced at Etna Green at least).  Other than the "!/4 Bore" matches which are "side matches",  I don't believe that we currently have any matches that are specifically restricted to "traditional-class rifles".  We simply self-designate if we are shooting a "traditional-class rifle". 
I suppose someone might challenge another shooters self-identification of a specific rifle or set-up in which case Schuetzenmeister Jeff would have to make a common-sense pass/fail ruling on it.  I'm not aware of that step being required yet.  
  
Other ranges and single-shot shooting orgs. may have other rules and practices.  If taking a specific setup that might be questionable to a match;  I'd certainly check with the match organizers about their "traditional-class" interpretation and practice.

The Pope machine rest replica we have at EG has a "muzzle rest" that is little bigger than an old lightning rod cable clamp.  I've handled it a number of times and posted photos of it in earlier discussions.  But I have not actually measured the width of the muzzle clamp base certainly its not much more than 3 inches.
I like the muzzle clamp-on rests I believe they can be a real help when shooting off-hand style stocks "from the bags"   especially for those of us shooting the Euro-schuetzen rifles off the bench.
       There is another factor to evaluate.  Too long or large a contact surface between the muzzle clamp ("runners" if you will)and the flat rest surface may become counter productive as the front rest is height adjusted for elevation.  the smaller rounded contact points probably function better with less binding.
  

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Sendaro
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Re: Muzzle rests
Reply #12 - Mar 23rd, 2015 at 5:23pm
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Guys, Thanks for your input. The second one (Mkll) has a width of 3" and runners that are 4" long. 

Jeff makes a good point that the socket head screws may be out of place. 

At any rate I plan to finish it and give it a try. If nothing else it will be an aid while test firing a rifle that doesn't have a stock that is easy to control on the bench.

Thanks again for the input, Sendaro
  
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Schuetzenmiester
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Re: Muzzle rests
Reply #13 - Mar 24th, 2015 at 12:42am
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Many picture of the old timers rests had a "V" notch in the center of the front.   I found using the notch against a peg with a heavy shoulder into the rifle was the most accurate.  YMMV  Grin Wink Wink
  

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Re: Muzzle rests
Reply #14 - Mar 24th, 2015 at 1:15am
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Similar to a Pope or the two pictured in Manns book and what is currently being used by the majority has taken the word similar to an extreme. The only thing similar is they all attach to the barrel. Making those found in Manns book and a copy of the Pope would be a real chore so it is understanble why there are so many high breed varieties all though they probably are not in the true spirit of the rules. Not complaing the one I used to us was not at all similar to either but it was still deemed legal.
  

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