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Elijah
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Front Placement
Dec 15th, 2014 at 12:53pm
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I've been wondering about this for some time. I have a Browning 1885 BPCR in 45-70 and always place the for end on the Protektor bag just about three inches back from the fore end tip.

I've seen others place the barrel on the front rest. Does it really matter?
  
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Lefty38-55
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Re: Front Placement
Reply #1 - Dec 15th, 2014 at 3:46pm
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Yes it does ... but only YOUR gun on YOUR rest, with YOUR technique and loads can tell us ... or you Wink for that matter ...
  

All of my single shots shoot one tiny ragged hole with cast bullets ... it's just the following shots that tend to open up my groups Wink ...
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Elijah
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Re: Front Placement
Reply #2 - Dec 15th, 2014 at 5:25pm
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I've gotten some pretty decent groups with the end of the fore end on the bag. Perchance a little experimentation is in order.

I've read to find the "sweet" spot if you lay the barrel on the front rest is to sprinkle baby powder on the barrel, shoot some ten rounds and see where the powder is partial gone and that's the sweet spot to rest the barre.. The problem with the Browning is the barrel is half round/octagon and that part that would be laying on the rest is round. I doubt you could get a good reading with a round barrel over one that's full octagon.
  
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Cat_Whisperer
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Re: Front Placement
Reply #3 - Dec 15th, 2014 at 5:37pm
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Some folks will tap the action/barrel with a hard plastic-faced hammer to vibrate the barrel.  Many methods work.
  

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40_Rod
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Re: Front Placement
Reply #4 - Dec 16th, 2014 at 8:23am
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There are two methods to find the nodes in your barrel. The first is to tap on the barrel with a hard plastic or brass hammer. Go up and down the barrel tapping mark where the ring changes or goes dead that’s your node. If you have an octagon barrel trickle some talcum powder on the top flat and then tat the barrel. The talc will arrange its self and literally point to the node.

40 Rod
  
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John Boy
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Re: Front Placement
Reply #5 - Dec 16th, 2014 at 4:49pm
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Quote:
Does it really matter?

Yes, the general Rule of Thumb is the Null Point for harmonic vibration of barrels is approximately 7" from the muzzle.  This is not an Absolute because the Null Point is dependent on the reload (fps & bullet weight) - but it is a good starting point

To find the Null Point - remove the forearm.  Hold the rifle vertical by the stock.  With a brass hammer, tap the barrel towards the muzzle.  You'll hear ringing from the taps and when you hear a 'thud' ... that's the Null Point of the barrel not taking into consideration the effect of the reload

I've put a rubber O ring under the stock bolt and for these riflles, the Null Point is the riflle resting on the back part of the forearm
  
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jeffer1942
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Re: Front Placement
Reply #6 - Dec 16th, 2014 at 5:36pm
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John Boy:

Can you explain your last sentence?
  
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Elijah
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Re: Front Placement
Reply #7 - Dec 17th, 2014 at 2:52pm
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I'd have a hard time hearing any ringing from the taps as I hear ringing all the time anyway.(Tinnitus)
  
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gunlaker
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Re: Front Placement
Reply #8 - Dec 17th, 2014 at 4:25pm
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I hold the rifle by the action and thump the barrel with my fist.  You can feel the dead spot quite easily on a heavy barrel.

Chris.
  
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Cat_Whisperer
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Re: Front Placement
Reply #9 - Dec 17th, 2014 at 7:08pm
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Hmmmm.  I've GOT to dig out the frequency meter to determine the orders of vibration!

  

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Lead Pot
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Re: Front Placement
Reply #10 - Dec 17th, 2014 at 8:38pm
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Use a statoscope  Smiley
  
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Cat_Whisperer
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Re: Front Placement
Reply #11 - Dec 17th, 2014 at 9:16pm
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WOW.   
I did dig out (albeit cheap and not calibrated) a spectrum analyzer.  (an app for Android devices)

Just taking a small brass hammer (ok I should use something more dead acoustically like leather or lead) and tapped gently 8 or 10 different rifle barrels.

Each had it's own 'signature' of resonances.  That signature changed as I moved the point of tapping from muzzle to breech.

With almost every rifle there was a 'dead' spot 5 to 8 inches back from the muzzle.  (Volume was less than on either side and the higher frequencies were attenuated.)

One or two barrels would ring.  That ringing was generally low in frequency (about 200 Hz on one).

The higher frequencies observed were from 2k to 5kHz.

Some barrels would have a wide band of resonances (about 2k or 3kHz wide) which would move up or down the scale as the tapping point was moved.

Most all the responses were higher in frequency as the point of tapping moved nearer the muzzle.

ONE rifle had two clear peaks of resonance (in the higher frequencies) - it also had a two piece stock.

Lots more that can be done; like attaching a bobsled and repeating the tests.

Unanswered:  does any of this have any affect on accuracy?
  

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Lead Pot
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Re: Front Placement
Reply #12 - Dec 18th, 2014 at 12:04am
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When you place the barrel on the cross ticks at the null point it acts like a barrel donut or a harmonic resonator. 
I find this is more pronounced with the longer barrels.
  
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Cat_Whisperer
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Re: Front Placement
Reply #13 - Dec 18th, 2014 at 6:57am
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Lead Pot wrote on Dec 18th, 2014 at 12:04am:
When you place the barrel on the cross ticks at the null point it acts like a barrel donut or a harmonic resonator. 
I find this is more pronounced with the longer barrels. 


Interesting point.

That is the assumption that I make.  I would further assume that the 'hardness' of the 'connection' would have an effect - more or less bounce - or some level of damping of vibration.  Makes sense that the cross sticks generally sling the barrel in leather.

  

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Elijah
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Re: Front Placement
Reply #14 - Dec 18th, 2014 at 2:29pm
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If you're not using cross sticks but rather a front rest(Protektor bag) I don't know that all t his would matter and as asked, would the effect have anything to do with accuracy.

I've always placed my Browning BPCR on the front rest just right back of the fore end maybe some 2-3 inches. Groups have been pretty good.

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