Id sure like someone to fill in the blanks on this cartridge. Im assuming its easier on the shoulder for long sessions than the 45-70, of course wont send nearly as large a bullet down range nor as far. Im starting to become fond of the SHORT/FAT Bp rounds rather than the LONG/FAT ones. Is this as viable as the 38-55 BP for a meat maker? Im absolutely clueless on the cartridge. Only  info I can find is the model 86 winchester I believe. Plenty of folks shoot them but it seems they are just fun guns for nostalgia. I don't need any more nostalgia right now, Id rather have an odd duck that kills elk at 200-300 effectively.

Im intrigued by the cartridge! A short 45-70.... with maybe a different rim dimension.

What was it developed for originally?

What can it be used for today with good success? Aside from target shooting cheaper than the 45-70 on BP.

Unsure of what velocities are generated on full cases of FFF and FF. So I have no idea what trajectories are like. Im figuring I can likely get 300 yards out of it with enough steam to penetrate just about anything in North America. That is on BP only, no smokeless. I may be overestimating by a large margin.

is the BC on typical bullets so poor that its relegated to stay inside 200, or even 100 yards? Is it short/fat/slow all at once?

Anybody..... anybody at all.... can you give me some sage advice on effectiveness, accuracy (from a target standpoint inside the 300 yard mark), recoil reduction from the 45-70-500 mark, kill experience? Is it good for sil shooting?

Thanks in advance for your wisdom.

All the best

Mike

I have a slower twist 458/450 barrel of unknown origin, 26 twist at 25 inch (likely 24 when finished). Id be installing on a beater rolling block which has been blueprinted. Swede suspension and wood. 

Less powder capacity, less barrel to burn it in was my thinking (but you have enlightened me as to the real capacity of the case). Yes I am absolutely fixated on BP. Absolutely NO SMOKELESS (due to actions used)
I wont have the sight radius to get way out there and my eyes are not what they used to be. So that radius matters greatly now. I need a purpose for this 26 twist 458 barrel!! Hoped this was it. Staying inside 300 with sights, capacity, trajectory.... thats what I am hoping for.

In any case if I ream a bbl I have here at 32 inch or 35 and am not satisfied, I can rechamber to the bigger cases. I was hoping for a shorter stalking rifle, with open sights and mid range tang sight. Just a full round barrel, something I can beat up in the field and not feel bad. I do need 300 yards though. If its light weight (relative statement), my kids can bust inanimate objects with it, make smoke clouds, etc w/o difficulty. A multipurpose generic BPCR!

I was going to do the same with a 45LC barrel I have at about 20 inch but the 45LC on BP is really lackluster. It really would be a 100 yard carbine with buckhorn sights. I shoot pistol and with a reasonable trajectory, make 200-250 yards w/o working too hard. With the 45-60, seems like a supermag 45 LC with some juice to spare. 

If 28 is minimum bbl length for 45-70, can I get away with 45-60 down at 24++ inches? I think any standard 45-60 reamer will be throated for 300-350gr grease groove bullets so if I go big, Id either have to adjust throat or seat deep. Neither is economical nor benefiting the cartridge. I think I'd be on the ragged edge of barrel

Id not want to shoot fatties from it, but the 300-385gr range of bullets seems just right for the purpose.

Thinking out loud here, chime in and correct my thinking as neede

My guessing on the 45-60 being for the 1876 appears to be correct. Just received the most recent copy of the "American Rifleman" (about half political BS these days, unfortunately - the NRA is all about sucking money out of folks to put lapierre's & his cronies pockets, just like any good TV preacher) and the rifle on the last page is an 1876 chambered in 45-60. Seems when Winchester made the 1873 larger it was still too short for the 45-70, so they made the 45-60. 

Buffalo Arms 45cal 'Chicken Bullet' should work well in that rifle. However, can't comment on the barrel length & twist, but seems pretty slow for a short barrel. I'm having my 26" Hepburn barrel rifled with a 13" twist for the 38-40 Rem as am "thinking" a shorter barrel needs a bit faster twist. Like you, BP only in this house. Even for Schuetzen.

I ran greenhills formula with the lyman 457191 (.800 long x .458 od) at 1200 fps and got a mid 30's twist requirement.
My 24-26 should be OK. Not sure if 25 inch barrel will be but, I will restrict the bullet weight initially to the 292 gr bullet. Maybe with long seating that will get me a tad more in powder capacity.

I also ran the 457122 HP at 330 gr. GH formula outputs 28 twist at same velocity. But I believe that 350gr would be as long as should be attempted based on twist, plus the velocity will be in the toilet.

I did find a few valid references on velocity for the 24 inch model of 1876 rifle in 45-60. Expected velocity is documented as 1100 although I believe it might be a few ticks better, on the 300 gr bullet. Some references indicated the 45-60 (found them this morn) upwards of 1300 but thats probably a much longer barrel.

Well, I have failed to meet the 300 yard objective and quite poss even 200 yard. 150 would be a long shot based on energy and trajectory. Thats to all who set me straight there.

Inside 150 it seems to have enough energy and likely penetration, especially with the 330 gr, to harvest game. Not monsters, just creatures with horns.

Trajectory: -10/150, -30/200 yards. WHEW, thats a cliff at 150-200.

Man this case capacity of 10gr less combined with slow twist sure truncates performance. The 45-70 has just 10 gr more juice and does so much more with it.

If it will stabilize and shoot accurate at 385gr bullet weight and I can get it running at 1100 fps, that would help in downrange energy w/o affecting trajectory much.

Its a worthy project. Ill do it.


Any other flies in the ointment I have overlooked?