I think it's O.A. Niedner holding his 44-100,Model 14. M.Petrov was the last to own that rifle, there is allot of history in that rifle and photo.

My guess was also Niedner, but the photos I have seen of him he was a much younger man. I have several more photos that maybe be of interest and some also need help with making an ID of the subject. Is this the proper place to post them and the discutions of their content? Please advise.

                               thanks, Sendaro

This sounds like a road trip for me. All I have to do is cross the boarder into NH and enjoy the day.

ron

   Sure enough, there she be !   Keeping good company with the J.Stevens on the left (our left, her right).

  Pop seem to be enjoying a good cigar, and is obviously well fed.

  What is Pop's name, if I may be so bold as to ask?

  C.M.M.

I don't know, John. While I can see some simular facial features (chin & nose) and he wore glasses and smoked cigars. I don't think Harvey was ever that chubby.

I have lots of pictures of him in his book "Your's Truly", here are two pictures, one from WW2 and the other from 1948 (holding the target).

The above, mystery picture looks like it's from no later than the forty's.

Frank

Hi Guys, Let me clear a few things up. I personaly knew and photographed Harvey Donaldson. The man near the gun cabnet is not Harvey but A.O. Niedner. That is Harvey in the photo with the woodchuck.In the next photo Harvey Donaldson is holding the target. To the right is Col. Towensend Whelen and the gent on the left is John Unertl. I know because I have the original of that photo taken on the Pine Tree Rifle Club Range in 1948. Harvey is holding a target that just set a new world record in benchrest shooting. It was shot by Sam Clark J. who is kneeling at the far right in the photo. Kneeling from L to R are Joe Rich, Manley Butts, Sam Clark Jr, Standing L to R are Frank Hubbard, John Unertl, Harvey Donaldson, Col. Townsends Whelen, and Clair Taylor. Note that Rich, Butts, and Taylor all hold Taylor & Robins benchrest rifles.Darce Crowther, Bill Crowther's wife won the Donaldson Trophy at the 1951 Annual benchrest matches held at the Pine Tree Rilfe Club of Johnstown NY. When Darce passed a few yeas ago the org Donaldson Match trophy she won was returned the PTRC from where it came and is again awarded to the winner of the annual Donaldson 200 yd score match in September. 
Again, is this the right plase to post old photos and the likes of this post? Please advise.                                Sendaro

Me to Val and I thank Sendaro for his clarification. I am going to remove my post so it does not inadvertently lead to any confusion.

JLouis

Guys,

    I've been working on a book about the history of the Pine Tree Rifle Club of Johnstown New York for over a year now. It will be going to the printer within the next week. The PTRC is the club where Harvey Donaldson got things started in modern orgianzed benchrest shooting that lead to the sport of benchrest shooting becoming international, and the IBS. That started in 1947 and throughout the early years the annual Labor Day matches there attracted the top shooters and manufacutres of shooting equipment to the event. I have many photos of those early matches and they will be in the book. I also have a bunch of photos that Bill Crowther took. However Bill never wrote anything on the photos so I'm working on making a positive ID of those in the photos. Again is this the place to post a topic of this nature on the ASSRA site? I don't want to be out of line with this.

                              Sendaro

John Louis , As I understand it that over sized Unertl scope still is in the Unertl family. I've been told that they were offered $20,000.00 for it and turned it down. You will see it again in the photo that I have posted here. Bill VanNostrand is holding it. Keep in mind that Bill was a big man and over 6 foot tall. I don't know for sure who the other man is in the photo. I have the orig photo and posted it posted here. It was taken at the Pine Tree Rifle Club in 1948. Bill was one of the club members that helped Harvey get things started in the benchrest movement.

                                 Sendaro

I was told by Bill's son that his father worked at the Aberdeen Proving Grounds for 32 years. I believe he had a shop at his home as I have seen a photo of Bill at his lathe. However I don't know where that was.

                             Sendaro

You may be on to something. I have to make an appointment, but will add to this later. I believe that I may have a missing link in the form of a very strange high wall that I got from Crowther.

                              Sendaro

Great photo's please keep them coming !!!!!

It seems that visiting all the people that Crowther did would have taken much time and money. A young guy home from WWII would not have made a lot of money while fighting for Un Sam, so maybe he was on goverment time. I have a very strange Winchester high wall rifle that came from Bill Crowther. I have posted about here in the past and the markings on the underside of the barrel indacate it was part of a test as it states in in the stamping. The following is on the bottom of the barrel, 22 HAWKER TEST RIFLE BY A.L. HARTUNG OF POMEROY, O. 1946 FOR SMALL ARMS RESEARCH. The bottom stampings are followed by a hand scribed code T.200.149.469.020. This maybe a work order or testing number from when Crowther worked for the APG. At any rate it came to me chamberd in a wildcat that is a30cal 1 in 12" twist  30-30 case with a radius on the shoulder like a Weatherby. This rifle is very odd looking in it's one piece stock. I have seen a rifle that is nearly a dead ringer for it in C.S.Landis's book Woodchucks and Woodchuck Rifles (1951). That rifle was smither by Hartung and stocked by Eric Farr. If you have the book look on the photo page just befor page 163, and you will see the photo.  There is also within that book a chapter about Hartung, and Eric Farr who I'm sure made the one piece stock for it. BTW it shoots 3/4MOA with 168 gr. Sierra MKs. I'm still working on a cast bullet breech seating load for it.

                              Sendaro

Which shop was that taken at? His shop in Southern Oregon, or later when he moved operations to Utah? I have a friend who's father worked for Ackley when he was in Oregon. James Woolford Sr.

marlinguy wrote on Jul 30^th, 2014 at 10:48am:


Sorry, but it's not the late John Wills, it is in fact A.O. Neidner himself, in front of his own gun cabinet.
I used to correspond with John Wills one of three or four Americans I had as Email friends and he was a real gentleman, nothing was too much trouble for him and if you asked him if he knew the dimensions of any Borchardt part he would reply with detailed drawings and a description of how that part was machined. Quite a remarkable and very helpful man. I only have a single picture of him which is unfortunately of a thumbnail size and doesn't reproduce well. The above picture was used by the late Michael Petrov and he said it was A.O.Niedner in the picture, If Michael said so that's good enough for me.

Harry

CMM:
     William "Art" Crowther, I believe, was an Army photographer.   He showed me some photos that he had taken at Hiroshima immediately after the end of the war, and had a small ceramic frog that he picked up in the rubble.
    His son, Willam Jr., still lives in this area (Wash DC), so if you could find him, he would be a good source of information.
   
CHRIS
RGChristensen

Thanks Chris--
That is very helpful and appreciated.  The photos that others posted here are most interesting and an historical record that I believe should be circulated as has been done above.

The past is a large portion of what ASSRA is about and part of what the organization offers to those of us who place a value on prior accomplishments. 

More vintage photos, please.

CMM

I like that idea, and have photos to post.

                          Sendaro

Niedner re-bore?    Check under the bbl, it will have a shop number stamped on it if done by Niedner.   I don't know who has the shop books now, but probably the ASSRA library has a copy.   From the number, you can find when it was done and possibly who it was done for.

CHRIS
RGChristensen

Great info and pic's. Especially for us more 'casual' history buffs. One of the most interesting photos to me is the one with all the long-action rifles for 200yd benchrest. Well before the PPC team got together with their series of cartridges which revolutionized BR shooting. 

Also, anyone interested might draw this thread to the attention of Paul Shuttleworth at CPA rifles. There is a good chance that Paul knew and shot with any number of the folks mentioned and pictured and could well add to the discussion. Paul is a great gentlemen and competes in the NY Schuetzen matches.

SSShooter, you make mention of a photo with long action rifles for 200 yard benchrest shooting. Where is that photo so that I may view it?

                       Sendaro

You are right. I forgot about those rifles that Taylor & Robins built on mauser actions. Thanks for jogging my brain.

           Sendaro

CMM,

I'm sorry to say that I do not. I have several photos from an old album that belonged to William Crowther, and a pile of others as well that go back to the early days of benchrest shooting at the Pine Tree Rifle Club. However none of those two marksmen. I will be posting some more photos from the Crowther collection soon. I have made Id on many and there are many more that I have not.

                                 Sendaro