Guys,

    I've been working on a book about the history of the Pine Tree Rifle Club of Johnstown New York for over a year now. It will be going to the printer within the next week. The PTRC is the club where Harvey Donaldson got things started in modern orgianzed benchrest shooting that lead to the sport of benchrest shooting becoming international, and the IBS. That started in 1947 and throughout the early years the annual Labor Day matches there attracted the top shooters and manufacutres of shooting equipment to the event. I have many photos of those early matches and they will be in the book. I also have a bunch of photos that Bill Crowther took. However Bill never wrote anything on the photos so I'm working on making a positive ID of those in the photos. Again is this the place to post a topic of this nature on the ASSRA site? I don't want to be out of line with this.

                              Sendaro

John Louis , As I understand it that over sized Unertl scope still is in the Unertl family. I've been told that they were offered $20,000.00 for it and turned it down. You will see it again in the photo that I have posted here. Bill VanNostrand is holding it. Keep in mind that Bill was a big man and over 6 foot tall. I don't know for sure who the other man is in the photo. I have the orig photo and posted it posted here. It was taken at the Pine Tree Rifle Club in 1948. Bill was one of the club members that helped Harvey get things started in the benchrest movement.

                                 Sendaro

I was told by Bill's son that his father worked at the Aberdeen Proving Grounds for 32 years. I believe he had a shop at his home as I have seen a photo of Bill at his lathe. However I don't know where that was.

                             Sendaro

You may be on to something. I have to make an appointment, but will add to this later. I believe that I may have a missing link in the form of a very strange high wall that I got from Crowther.

                              Sendaro

Great photo's please keep them coming !!!!!

It seems that visiting all the people that Crowther did would have taken much time and money. A young guy home from WWII would not have made a lot of money while fighting for Un Sam, so maybe he was on goverment time. I have a very strange Winchester high wall rifle that came from Bill Crowther. I have posted about here in the past and the markings on the underside of the barrel indacate it was part of a test as it states in in the stamping. The following is on the bottom of the barrel, 22 HAWKER TEST RIFLE BY A.L. HARTUNG OF POMEROY, O. 1946 FOR SMALL ARMS RESEARCH. The bottom stampings are followed by a hand scribed code T.200.149.469.020. This maybe a work order or testing number from when Crowther worked for the APG. At any rate it came to me chamberd in a wildcat that is a30cal 1 in 12" twist  30-30 case with a radius on the shoulder like a Weatherby. This rifle is very odd looking in it's one piece stock. I have seen a rifle that is nearly a dead ringer for it in C.S.Landis's book Woodchucks and Woodchuck Rifles (1951). That rifle was smither by Hartung and stocked by Eric Farr. If you have the book look on the photo page just befor page 163, and you will see the photo.  There is also within that book a chapter about Hartung, and Eric Farr who I'm sure made the one piece stock for it. BTW it shoots 3/4MOA with 168 gr. Sierra MKs. I'm still working on a cast bullet breech seating load for it.

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Which shop was that taken at? His shop in Southern Oregon, or later when he moved operations to Utah? I have a friend who's father worked for Ackley when he was in Oregon. James Woolford Sr.

marlinguy wrote on Jul 30^th, 2014 at 10:48am:


Sorry, but it's not the late John Wills, it is in fact A.O. Neidner himself, in front of his own gun cabinet.
I used to correspond with John Wills one of three or four Americans I had as Email friends and he was a real gentleman, nothing was too much trouble for him and if you asked him if he knew the dimensions of any Borchardt part he would reply with detailed drawings and a description of how that part was machined. Quite a remarkable and very helpful man. I only have a single picture of him which is unfortunately of a thumbnail size and doesn't reproduce well. The above picture was used by the late Michael Petrov and he said it was A.O.Niedner in the picture, If Michael said so that's good enough for me.

Harry