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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Martini Cadet 32 Winchester Special (Read 18189 times)
brstevens
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Re: Martini Cadet 32 Winchester Special
Reply #15 - Jun 19th, 2014 at 12:55pm
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How about the RCBS Cadet bullet mold? Does it seem to perform well?
« Last Edit: Jun 19th, 2014 at 10:49pm by brstevens »  
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brstevens
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Re: Martini Cadet 32 Winchester Special
Reply #16 - Jun 21st, 2014 at 11:22am
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Does the 170gr bullet stabilize ? What fps do you think you are getting?
Schuetzendave wrote on Jun 11th, 2014 at 10:23pm:
R.P. Case
Lyman 321298 150 grain
Winchester Primer
9.9 grains Dupont 700X
COAL: 2.421
Taper Crimp
F.L. Sized

R.P. Case
Lyman 321317 170 grain
Winchester Primer
9.5 grains Dupont 700X
COAL: 2.450
Taper Crimp
F.L. Sized

Kicks like a Mule. Lighter bullet shot the best.
Original BSA Martini Cadet .310 barrel rechambered to .32 Winchester Special.

  
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Dr Tom
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Re: Martini Cadet 32 Winchester Special
Reply #17 - Jun 21st, 2014 at 10:21pm
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Most 170s won't stabilize in mine. The 16" twist is just too slow. The weight isn't the issue. It is the length of the bullet. A .32 caliber bullet one inch in length needs a twist of 14" or thereabout, depending on whose formula you use. The oldest formula still used today is by Greenhill. You can search Wikipedia using "Greenhill" and "twist" as search terms and you will find his formula and several others. I find that a 150 gr bullet that is 0.9" long stabilizes OK with a muzzle velocity of 1550 fps. This agrees with Greenhill and most of the others. If you have Microsoft Office or Open Office, I think you can download a spreadsheet to help with the calculation. I can't find a link at the moment. Perhaps another forum member has it at hand. 

I enjoy mine a lot. It is definitely worth the effort to find the right bullet.
  
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brstevens
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Re: Martini Cadet 32 Winchester Special
Reply #18 - Jun 21st, 2014 at 10:44pm
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I did finally slug the bore on mine. It appears to be .320. One other bullet I have is the Lee .309 120gr RN GC. Thinking maybe I could Paper Patch it to work. Do have the 160gr .313 bullet that people use for the 303 and the 7.62x39 but it would proably to long..   Lips SealedDr Tom wrote on Jun 21st, 2014 at 10:21pm:
Most 170s won't stabilize in mine. The 16" twist is just too slow. The weight isn't the issue. It is the length of the bullet. A .32 caliber bullet one inch in length needs a twist of 14" or thereabout, depending on whose formula you use. The oldest formula still used today is by Greenhill. You can search Wikipedia using "Greenhill" and "twist" as search terms and you will find his formula and several others. I find that a 150 gr bullet that is 0.9" long stabilizes OK with a muzzle velocity of 1550 fps. This agrees with Greenhill and most of the others. If you have Microsoft Office or Open Office, I think you can download a spreadsheet to help with the calculation. I can't find a link at the moment. Perhaps another forum member has it at hand. 

I enjoy mine a lot. It is definitely worth the effort to find the right bullet.

  
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Dr Tom
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Re: Martini Cadet 32 Winchester Special
Reply #19 - Jun 21st, 2014 at 11:33pm
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I found something at NEI:  (You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)

Their catalog no. 322-160-GC looks to be about 0.9" long. You might want to give them a call. This is not an endorsement. I don't own any of their products, but they've been around a long time, which is saying something.
  
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brstevens
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Re: Martini Cadet 32 Winchester Special
Reply #20 - Jun 26th, 2014 at 10:18pm
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Thanks for the information,but their mold is out of my price range.
  
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6mmintl
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Re: Martini Cadet 32 Winchester Special
Reply #21 - Jul 4th, 2014 at 10:16am
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Most bore are .321, in my original barrel I load cast 32 WS or 8mm bullets in a shortened case .960" long with 7-9 grains of 2400 (150-180 gr.) and the gun shoots extremely well/accurate as the long tapered throat swages bullets to size.

I also shoot the old speer 125 grain 8mm cone shaped softpoints with excellent accuracy.
  
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Schuetzendave
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Re: Martini Cadet 32 Winchester Special
Reply #22 - Jul 4th, 2014 at 10:26am
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I can't find a link at the moment.

Greenhill Formula:

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.321 bore 14:1 twist = maximum 1.1" bullet length
.321 bore 16:1 twist = maximum 0.89" bullet length
« Last Edit: Jul 4th, 2014 at 12:42pm by Schuetzendave »  
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Dr Tom
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Re: Martini Cadet 32 Winchester Special
Reply #23 - Jul 4th, 2014 at 12:09pm
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My Cadet has a 16" twist.
« Last Edit: Jul 4th, 2014 at 12:15pm by Dr Tom »  
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wakosama
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Re: Martini Cadet 32 Winchester Special
Reply #24 - Jul 4th, 2014 at 1:59pm
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Is the greenhill formula for the actual bullet length, or for the parallel sided length engaging the rifling? thanks.

1in16 with .323 dia is .98 bullet length?  just asking.
  
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Schuetzendave
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Re: Martini Cadet 32 Winchester Special
Reply #25 - Jul 4th, 2014 at 3:09pm
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Greenhill: Total Bullet Length: tip to base length of the bullet

Lyman 321298  150 grains 0.824" bullet length
Lyman 321317  170 grains 0.899" bullet length without gas check

Yes the 170 grain was starting to tip indicating marginal stability in the .310 Cadet barrel.

I never verified the velocities.
« Last Edit: Jul 4th, 2014 at 7:22pm by Schuetzendave »  
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brstevens
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Re: Martini Cadet 32 Winchester Special
Reply #26 - Jul 5th, 2014 at 10:01pm
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Thanks for the updated information. I guess I need to load just a few of the Lee174gr and see what happens. Do not plan on going higher than 1700 fps
  
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vol717
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Re: Martini Cadet 32 Winchester Special
Reply #27 - Aug 1st, 2014 at 10:20pm
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I don't believe that many people who comment on the recoil of the 32 Special Cadet have ever shot one.  They don't kick any  more than a 94 Winchester.  I have one and it shoots jacketed 170 grainers just fine.
  
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Dr Tom
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Re: Martini Cadet 32 Winchester Special
Reply #28 - Aug 2nd, 2014 at 3:40pm
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I'm pretty certain that most of the folks on this forum that claim knowledge of the 32 WS Cadet have some experience with it. There are many thousands of them in the US and a lot of us are older than dirt, so the probability that we've shot one is pretty high. Mine is lighter than a typical 30-30 carbine, so it kicks harder than a typical 30-30 carbine. This agrees with the laws of physics. 

As stated in this thread, the stability of the bullet depends on bullet length and twist. Mine is 16:1, and will not stabilize most cast 170s.
  
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Seanmp
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Re: Martini Cadet 32 Winchester Special
Reply #29 - Aug 2nd, 2014 at 4:31pm
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Dr Tom wrote on Aug 2nd, 2014 at 3:40pm:
. 

As stated in this thread, the stability of the bullet depends on bullet length and twist. Mine is 16:1, and will not stabilize most cast 170s.


The twist rate calculator I posted in the reloading gate absolutely concurs. It's so marginal that changing the diameter .002" shows the bullet as unstable
  
Sean
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