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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Marlin Ballard 1-1/2 details (Read 13319 times)
graduated peep
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Marlin Ballard 1-1/2 details
Mar 1st, 2014 at 7:57am
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I know this model had come up awhile ago, but I have not been able to find the thread.
So, I was hoping to get some fresh info about this model.
Most importantly, what style of rifling was used on these early models ???
Was it significantly different in form from later MFA.Co. Ballards ???
I know they were offered in 45-70, but any .40 calibers ???
Thanks for any replies.
  
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frnkeore
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Re: Marlin Ballard 1-1/2 details
Reply #1 - Mar 1st, 2014 at 12:15pm
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I've handled one here locally that is marked 40/65. While I looked down the barrel, I don't know what the difference is in early and late rifling.

It's non rebated, B&W lever and hammer.

Frank
  

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graduated peep
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Re: Marlin Ballard 1-1/2 details
Reply #2 - Mar 1st, 2014 at 1:03pm
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Frank,
I guess I was a bit vague regarding the rifling question.
I was wondering if J.M.Marlin ever used 3 groove rifling like Springfield trapdoors have ????
In ANY caliber at ANY time ???
I own a 3 digit #1 .44 RF/CF, several #2's and 3's, as well as a couple of Pacifics and a #8 and #9.
They all have multi groove rifling; so when I see a Ballard with 3 groove rifling it makes wonder WTH ??? Huh
  
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frnkeore
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Re: Marlin Ballard 1-1/2 details
Reply #3 - Mar 1st, 2014 at 1:20pm
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Yes, they did, I also have handled a 2 digit serial # rifle in 44RF/CF that had the 3 grooves.

The 40/65 isn't 3 groove, I believe it was 6 groove and has a serial # in the 2 or 3 hundreds. I can look at it again soon.

I own a #2 32 RF/CF serial # 490, non rebate, B&W hammer & lever. It has multigroove rifling.

Frank
  

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marlinguy
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Re: Marlin Ballard 1-1/2 details
Reply #4 - Mar 1st, 2014 at 10:04pm
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I haven't seen any Marlin Ballard #1.5 with 3 groove rifling, and sure would be interested in seeing that! All I've seen were 6 wide grooves with narrow lands, and my #1.5 is the same. There's an excellent picture of the Ballard rifling on page 137 of John Dutcher's great book on these guns. The Ballard rifling didn't change, and was still in use in modern Marlin repeaters long after the Ballard ceased production by Marlin.
I would guess the .44 that Frank described was most likely either an #0 or #1 Ballard, and not a #1.5 model. The earlier models were assembled from Brown Mfg. parts, and would explain the 3 groove barrel.
My 1.5 is also a .40 caliber, a .40-63 Everlasting to be exact; also known as .40-70 Ballard. They also were made in .40-65 Everlasting, and .45-70
The #1.5 was the first Marlin Ballard made completely of newly manufactured Marlin parts, and the first firged frame Ballard. They came with round top receivers with flat sides, full round barrels, and straight grip stocks. Levers used were either ring type, early S with the tail turned under, or the typical S style used on many later Ballard rifles. They are very tough to find, and I just found the one I own this year, after 20+ years of trying to own one.
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frnkeore
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Re: Marlin Ballard 1-1/2 details
Reply #5 - Mar 2nd, 2014 at 1:06am
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Vall,
The 3 groove that I spoke of is the one that I told you about and you checked into. Was that a #0 or #1 or?

The 40/65 Ballard that I also spoke of has the 3 digit number, has a flat side octagon frame with a full octagon barrel. It looks just like my serial # 490, #2 but, with a forged frame and CF firing pin. What is it?

Frank
  

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Re: Marlin Ballard 1-1/2 details
Reply #6 - Mar 2nd, 2014 at 8:36am
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My .45-70 is the "normal" six wide groove, narrow land rifling.  Serial is 10159.  Round barrel, rebated octagon top receiver, single trigger, straight grip.  Maybe it is not  factory as the barrel has a tiny stamped "Browning Bros, Ogdon, U.T." and ".45 Govt" on top, but the serial number on the barrel and the fore end match the action number.

  

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graduated peep
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Re: Marlin Ballard 1-1/2 details
Reply #7 - Mar 2nd, 2014 at 12:03pm
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terry buffum wrote on Mar 2nd, 2014 at 8:36am:
My .45-70 is the "normal" six wide groove, narrow land rifling.  Serial is 10159.  Round barrel, rebated octagon top receiver, single trigger, straight grip.  Maybe it is not  factory as the barrel has a tiny stamped "Browning Bros, Ogdon, U.T." and ".45 Govt" on top, but the serial number on the barrel and the fore end match the action number.


That Browning stamp may just mean that they sold the gun from new.
Or perhaps they did re-barrel it.
Either way,I would think that it would add greatly to the gun's appeal.
  
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Re: Marlin Ballard 1-1/2 details
Reply #8 - Mar 2nd, 2014 at 12:26pm
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The JM Marlin .40-63 1 1/2 example in my possession (SN~6240) has "normal" Ballard rifling. Also has the "octagonal"-top frame. All numbers match.

Grant mentions an August, 1927, American Rifleman article, "The Early Ballard", by LD Satterlee in his first book. Maybe the 3-groove rifling is addressed there?
  
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marlinguy
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Re: Marlin Ballard 1-1/2 details
Reply #9 - Mar 2nd, 2014 at 7:02pm
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frnkeore wrote on Mar 2nd, 2014 at 1:06am:
Vall,
The 3 groove that I spoke of is the one that I told you about and you checked into. Was that a #0 or #1 or?

The 40/65 Ballard that I also spoke of has the 3 digit number, has a flat side octagon frame with a full octagon barrel. It looks just like my serial # 490, #2 but, with a forged frame and CF firing pin. What is it?

Frank


I never had it in my hands Frank. I spoke with the seller at the gun shop, but he seemed too sketchy on giving me info, and his phone price was much higher than the price he told you, so never made it down to personally handle it. The caliber would indicate one of the two, just not sure which. 
  

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marlinguy
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Re: Marlin Ballard 1-1/2 details
Reply #10 - Mar 2nd, 2014 at 7:07pm
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xtimberman wrote on Mar 2nd, 2014 at 12:26pm:
The JM Marlin .40-63 1 1/2 example in my possession (SN~6240) has "normal" Ballard rifling. Also has the "octagonal"-top frame. All numbers match.

Grant mentions an August, 1927, American Rifleman article, "The Early Ballard", by LD Satterlee in his first book. Maybe the 3-groove rifling is addressed there?


Sounds like a very interesting #1.5 you have! From what I've gathered the round top receivers were used well into the 4 digit serial numbers, and many are found with 5 digit numbers. Your number might be one of the lowest serial number octagon top #1.5 I've ever heard of. It's a lower number than some round top receivers I've seen!
  

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marlinguy
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Re: Marlin Ballard 1-1/2 details
Reply #11 - Mar 2nd, 2014 at 7:08pm
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terry buffum wrote on Mar 2nd, 2014 at 8:36am:
My .45-70 is the "normal" six wide groove, narrow land rifling.  Serial is 10159.  Round barrel, rebated octagon top receiver, single trigger, straight grip.  Maybe it is not  factory as the barrel has a tiny stamped "Browning Bros, Ogdon, U.T." and ".45 Govt" on top, but the serial number on the barrel and the fore end match the action number.



Since Browning Bros. seemed to stamp everything they sold Terry, I'd bet yours is 100% original, and just the bonus of a Browning Bros. stamped gun!
  

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graduated peep
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Re: Marlin Ballard 1-1/2 details
Reply #12 - Mar 3rd, 2014 at 7:31am
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marlinguy wrote on Mar 1st, 2014 at 10:04pm:
I haven't seen any Marlin Ballard #1.5 with 3 groove rifling, and sure would be interested in seeing that! All I've seen were 6 wide grooves with narrow lands, and my #1.5 is the same. There's an excellent picture of the Ballard rifling on page 137 of John Dutcher's great book on these guns. The Ballard rifling didn't change, and was still in use in modern Marlin repeaters long after the Ballard ceased production by Marlin.
I would guess the .44 that Frank described was most likely either an #0 or #1 Ballard, and not a #1.5 model. The earlier models were assembled from Brown Mfg. parts, and would explain the 3 groove barrel.
My 1.5 is also a .40 caliber, a .40-63 Everlasting to be exact; also known as .40-70 Ballard. They also were made in .40-65 Everlasting, and .45-70
The #1.5 was the first Marlin Ballard made completely of newly manufactured Marlin parts, and the first firged frame Ballard. They came with round top receivers with flat sides, full round barrels, and straight grip stocks. Levers used were either ring type, early S with the tail turned under, or the typical S style used on many later Ballard rifles. They are very tough to find, and I just found the one I own this year, after 20+ years of trying to own one.
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I respectfully refer you to the following link:
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If not factory original, perhaps someone managed to turn down a trapdoor barrel and used it as a liner ?? Huh
  
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Re: Marlin Ballard 1-1/2 details
Reply #13 - Mar 3rd, 2014 at 9:26am
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I was looking at that one too,shame about the pitting on the receiver.
  
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graduated peep
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Re: Marlin Ballard 1-1/2 details
Reply #14 - Mar 3rd, 2014 at 10:17am
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Yeah, it's got some rough spots.
I received a photo of the open breech, and that end looks almost like the barrel face had been welded or something.
A person would have to view it up close to be certain of what, if anything has been done to it.
  
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