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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Winchester 1885 dilemia (Read 15501 times)
Redsetter
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Re: Winchester 1885 dilemia
Reply #15 - Jan 22nd, 2014 at 5:11pm
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JLouis wrote on Jan 22nd, 2014 at 3:21pm:
Nothing is free, someone has to pay for the ink, paper and the time spent. It is all a part of eveyday business and I can't imagine Winchester doing anything for free or expecting others to do it either.

JLouis


Then you don't know what you're talking about.  Letters were provided free by Winchester until the records were transferred to Cody.  I began writing off for them while still in high school.

I wouldn't have objected, however, to any reasonable service charge; Cody's current charges are far, far, beyond reasonable.
  
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Re: Winchester 1885 dilemia
Reply #16 - Jan 22nd, 2014 at 5:11pm
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For comparison, Parker Shotgun records are owned by the Parker Collectors club. Factory letter is 100 dollars, 40 if you are a club member. This seems to be about normal charge for other makes. Parker club web site tells you if factory information is available no charge

Considering how values are enhanced with factory information it's a bargain. It the subject 1885 was shipped with a 26 inch barrel letter would be well worth having.  If it's been cut no sense in paying the fee, best convert it to suit your needs.

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Redsetter
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Re: Winchester 1885 dilemia
Reply #17 - Jan 22nd, 2014 at 5:13pm
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sureshot wrote on Jan 22nd, 2014 at 5:02pm:
I have heard that if you call the Cody Museum with your serial number they will look it up and tell you verbally the info about your gun if they have it. 
I have never tried it but Bill Goodman mentions it in a lot of his listings.
It's the actual official letter you have to pay for if you want one sent.

Steve  Smiley


Are you sure that phone service isn't restricted to members of the Cody Museum, and/or Winchester Collector's Assn.?
  
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LONG RANGE
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Re: Winchester 1885 dilemia
Reply #18 - Jan 22nd, 2014 at 5:49pm
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Among my many regrets involving guns I have owed is having an 1885 38-55 in excellent condition drilled and tapped for scope blocks. Hard as it is to believe, I never even fired the rifle before selling it. Talk about stupid.
  
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sureshot
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Re: Winchester 1885 dilemia
Reply #19 - Jan 22nd, 2014 at 6:53pm
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Redsetter wrote on Jan 22nd, 2014 at 5:13pm:
sureshot wrote on Jan 22nd, 2014 at 5:02pm:
I have heard that if you call the Cody Museum with your serial number they will look it up and tell you verbally the info about your gun if they have it. 
I have never tried it but Bill Goodman mentions it in a lot of his listings.
It's the actual official letter you have to pay for if you want one sent.

Steve  Smiley


Are you sure that phone service isn't restricted to members of the Cody Museum, and/or Winchester Collector's Assn.?



The best way to find out would be to call them and ask.

Steve  Smiley
  
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sureshot
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Re: Winchester 1885 dilemia
Reply #20 - Jan 22nd, 2014 at 6:58pm
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I have called Dr. Labowski in the past and he has been nice enough to furnish me with info about a couple of original Sharps rifles over the phone no charge.

Steve  Smiley
  
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Re: Winchester 1885 dilemia
Reply #21 - Jan 23rd, 2014 at 8:38am
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Redsetter
Don't ever try to letter a sharps then.

40 Rod
  
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Redsetter
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Re: Winchester 1885 dilemia
Reply #22 - Jan 23rd, 2014 at 10:54am
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40_Rod wrote on Jan 23rd, 2014 at 8:38am:
Redsetter
Don't ever try to letter a sharps then.

40 Rod


Why do I need the paper if the pertinent information is available as indicated in the preceding post?  Anyone who can afford the price of an original Sharps will probably not be troubled by the cost of the letter.
  
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Re: Winchester 1885 dilemia
Reply #23 - Jan 23rd, 2014 at 12:01pm
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How much does the Cody museum charge for a letter ?

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Re: Winchester 1885 dilemia
Reply #24 - Jan 23rd, 2014 at 1:11pm
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When I was a member, it was $35 for a paper letter and 50 e-mail info requests per year at no cost. $65 for non-members and no on-line research info. Now that membership is up to $250/yr that is out of my price range. Non-member letters are $70, pre-paid. Here is a link to their fee schedule:
(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)
  

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Re: Winchester 1885 dilemia
Reply #25 - Jan 23rd, 2014 at 3:22pm
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So it's in line with the Parker letters price. Parker said as much in the last Parker Pages but never checked it out 


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Re: Winchester 1885 dilemia
Reply #26 - Jan 24th, 2014 at 1:18am
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Redsetter
I measured and the sight is cut 7/8" from the muzzle so I'm guessing the barrel was cut a 100 years ago.
The rifle is still in otherwise too good of shape for me to monkey with due to its age. I'm going to install a Rocky Mountain style front sight and enjoy the old rifle as it is.
thanks for all the helpful input.
  
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Re: Winchester 1885 dilemia
Reply #27 - Jan 24th, 2014 at 4:22am
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Redsetter wrote Quote:
When Winchester GAVE their immensely valuable collection to the Buffalo Bill Museum, I'll bet it was with the tacit assumption that the historical information in these records would remain more or less freely available to collectors as it had been in the past.  "Freely available" wouldn't preclude some nominal charge for the service to discourage those (such as dealers) who might abuse the system, but Cody's charge is out of all proportion to reasonable costs incurred in maintaining these records.

Problem arose when people started asking for letter info on rifles up to 5 on either side of a serial number, searching for those certain serial numbers that lettered to guns with rare features, so they could then go shopping for lower tangs that were fit to poor condition rifles, and then began parts swapping to create a higher grade rifle to match the letter.
Nothing new about it, and not all that much different from some of us who search for set trigger tangs and other parts on this forum to upgrade our shooters, though we aren't intentionally trying to make fake rifles, and hang on to them to actually use for awhile before trading or selling them off.

  

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Re: Winchester 1885 dilemia
Reply #28 - Jan 24th, 2014 at 2:18pm
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BP wrote on Jan 24th, 2014 at 4:22am:
Problem arose when people started asking for letter info on rifles up to 5 on either side of a serial number, searching for those certain serial numbers that lettered to guns with rare features, so they could then go shopping for lower tangs that were fit to poor condition rifles, and then began parts swapping to create a higher grade rifle to match the letter.


A more direct scam is simply to "manufacture" a higher-grade gun with new parts, such as barrel & wood, & during the '80s & '90s I was well acquainted with a master gunsmith doing such work, mainly on Winchester levers.  The guns to be faked were provided by a dealer (now deceased), who sold them at shows in the NE, as often as not to other dealers, so by the time the gun reached the "collector," it might have passed through 2 or more hands.  At one big show I once saw 4 or 5 of these faked guns at high prices on the tables of several different dealers.

Usual fakery consisted of a rust re-blue, XXX wood, & very often a rebore, or a new barrel, in a more desirable caliber, such as 45-90.  One supplier of these barrels was Sonny France, who used a set of fake roll dies to mark them, with, believe it or not, "Manufactured" misspelled!  At least that was true of one of his barrels that I happened to examine before it was installed; it didn't stop the gun, an '86, from being sold for big dough.  I rescued a nice high-wall in 32-20, with PG & SST, that was destined to be rebored to a more desirable caliber.

Now that everyone (except me) carries a cell in their pocket, & can call Cody (if they are members) to check ser. nos., this kind of fakery must be harder to pull off.
  
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Re: Winchester 1885 dilemia
Reply #29 - Jan 31st, 2014 at 1:08am
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Bert solved the problem for me by a serial number check that indicates the action left the factory chambered in 44 WCF and not 38-55. 
thank you Bert
  
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