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Bobduck
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Small 22 caliber center fire?
Jan 15th, 2014 at 6:15pm
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I'm new to the forum but have been shooting all my life.  Now that I'm semi retired I have more time to explore some things.

I've always been intrigued with the idea of a small 22 centerfire cartridge for cast bullets.  Something to duplicate the 22 rimfire or a little faster.

I read about the 22 Rush years ago in Precision Shooting and have read about the 22 Long Snapper and I believe there was a 22 Short Snapper.  I recently ran across a discussion of what I recall was called the 22 Squirrel but I'm not familiar with that.  A lot of the discussion I've found on various cartridges like this assumes the reader already knows what it is.

This has probably been kicked around a lot on this forum but I'd be interested in hearing from other's experiences or information on this idea.

Bobduck
  
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marlinguy
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Re: Small 22 caliber center fire?
Reply #1 - Jan 15th, 2014 at 6:41pm
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Or the very first CF .22 ever made; the .22 Morris or as it was designated the 297/230 Morris Short. Tough to get brass for, but it can be reformed from donor brass.
Here's a link to a thread here:
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And BA brass for 297/230 Long:
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MIKE-T
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Re: Small 22 caliber center fire?
Reply #2 - Jan 15th, 2014 at 6:51pm
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Look up the 22 Maynard XL cartridge, old original small centerfire, about the same as 22 CCM & 5.75 Velodog they are all pretty close to the same size. 
Fiocchi imported the 5.75 a few years ago, all three of these cartridges could be shortened to 22 LR length and make a great small caliber reloadable 22 caliber cartridge, especially with BP.
Mike
  
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craigster
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Re: Small 22 caliber center fire?
Reply #3 - Jan 15th, 2014 at 9:56pm
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Another consideration might be the 22 Winchester Centerfire. Cases can be formed using Hornet brass. Original lead bullet loadings were BP but later on smokeless was used.
  
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uscra112
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Re: Small 22 caliber center fire?
Reply #4 - Jan 15th, 2014 at 11:23pm
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Take the easy route for starters, and just use the Hornet.   

For that matter, you can light-load the .222, or the .223 to get .22 rimfire velocities.  I do it using Red Dot, but Bullseye does pretty well, too.   

For my part, I gave up on casting .22s.   Never got good yield from casting those itty-bitty things.  All my .22 stuff is jacketed bullets now. 
  
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13Echo
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Re: Small 22 caliber center fire?
Reply #5 - Jan 16th, 2014 at 7:48am
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I remember about 50 or more years ago there was a small .22 CF that was supposed to be used in converted rimfire riifles.  I believe it was called the .22 JGR or something like that.  It had a very brief existence and I don't recall hearing anything since.

Jerry Liles
  
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JLouis
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Re: Small 22 caliber center fire?
Reply #6 - Jan 16th, 2014 at 10:59am
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A 22WCF took top honors in our Nov. Match, 200 Yards Benchrest Any Sight with back to back 245's for a 490 total. Unlike the experience previously noted the match quality 70gr. 1-20 lead and tin alloy bullets are easily cast.

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ledball
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Re: Small 22 caliber center fire?
Reply #7 - Jan 16th, 2014 at 11:49am
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I don't have any figures on the 22 wcf,  I know it is like the 22 hornet, are they really the same case with a different name.  Ledball
  
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frnkeore
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Re: Small 22 caliber center fire?
Reply #8 - Jan 16th, 2014 at 12:02pm
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There is almost no difference between a 22 WCF and 22 Hornet other than necking down fron .228 to .223

Frank
  
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Re: Small 22 caliber center fire?
Reply #9 - Jan 16th, 2014 at 9:59pm
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The hornet is .052" shorter than the WCF.
  
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Bobduck
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Re: Small 22 caliber center fire?
Reply #10 - Jan 17th, 2014 at 10:40am
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Had a chance to do a little experimenting yesterday in my search for an inexpensive plinker load.  This isn't 22 caliber but was still interesting.

I have a Ruger #1 in 32 20 with a .308 barrel.  I found a bag of "0" Buck and they measured .320.  I put 5.0 grains of Bullseye in the case followed by a thick card wad and then cut a grease wad with the case mouth.   The buckshot at .320 is about the same diameter as the outside of the case neck.  I stuck one of the buckshot on the end of the case.

At 50 yards three shots went into 1 inch, another was off this group by about 2 inches and another off by about 4 inches.   

I had very poor shooting conditions so found these results interesting.  I'm going to play around with this some more.

Bobduck
  
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QuestionableMaynard8130
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Re: Small 22 caliber center fire?
Reply #11 - Jan 17th, 2014 at 5:42pm
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you can have RMC make reduced capacity cases for 22 cal centerfire cartridges.  I had a batch of 220 Swift cases made for my Ruger#1 a few years back, very thick walls and a straight walled 22 cal hole down to the firing pin hole. The primer pocket cut for small pistol primers.   I've ever used them yet since the rifle is on loan to a local coyote herd thinner.  I figured to use it with cast bullets at 22 rimfire velocities.   Might do the same with a nice custom #1 in 22-250.
  
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macca
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Re: Small 22 caliber center fire?
Reply #12 - Jan 28th, 2014 at 5:28am
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For me the 221 fireball pistol chamber in a rifle is probably the best small case 22. Its rimless, headspaces off the shoulder, has good wall thickness, easy to reload and very easy to convert to from a 222 or 223. Sako short actions (L461) are probably the best.
35 grainers really hoot along
cheers macca
  
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QuestionableMaynard8130
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Re: Small 22 caliber center fire?
Reply #13 - Jan 28th, 2014 at 7:39am
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JLouis, RE: the match winning 22wcf rifle and load you were mentioning earlier in the thread.  You mention 70 gr 22 bullets.  what twist is that rifle using to get that king of accuracy and what is the bullet like?  it sounds really creative.

MACCA I have a 17 fireball (nee. 17 mach IV) in the smallest FBW action. it is a cute little small game rifle, real light and handy. However the extractor for a rimless case is only semi-functional--at best.   (and unfortunately I don't know of anyone making cast bullet molds for 17 cal) If I wasn't already so heavily invested in factory 17 fireball I'd have it re-cut for the rimmed version of the 222/223 case formed to the 17.   I think the original 223 fireball would be a great little ss round, especially with reduced capacity cases.  At full capacity I thin it's probably way over-capacity for light ref/22 mag velocity cal bullet loads.
« Last Edit: Jan 31st, 2014 at 4:44pm by QuestionableMaynard8130 »  
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harry_eales
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Re: Small 22 caliber center fire?
Reply #14 - Jan 28th, 2014 at 4:46pm
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Quote:
I remember about 50 or more years ago there was a small .22 CF that was supposed to be used in converted rimfire riifles.  I believe it was called the .22 JGR or something like that.  It had a very brief existence and I don't recall hearing anything since.
Jerry Liles


Jerry,
the .22 JGR was around in the mid to late 1950's, I believe that it was intended to be an improved version of the .22" Hornet but shorter in length, and more tightly necked to suit either a rifle or pistol. Cases could be made from Hornet brass. A Canadian company made some ammo for it but I don't recollect any factory producing a rifle or pistol for it. It was tested by several gun magazines around at the time, but I don't think it was much of an improvement over the Hornet and so died a natural death when very young.

Harry
  
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