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Twenty TWO - twenty cartridge? (Read 4534 times)

uscra112 Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 4079 Location: Switzerland of Ohio Joined: May 7^th, 2007	Twenty TWO - twenty cartridge? Mar 13^th, 2014 at 11:40pm	Print Post
	Has anyone ever heard of, seen, read about, a .22-20 black-powder cartridge, perhaps associated with Rueben Harwood? Might have been a .22 version of Rabbeth's .25-20? (In which case Hervey Lovell didn't invent his .22-3000 case...) One of my correspondents on another site thinks there might have been, and it might go some way toward figuring out what the original chambering was in the 1894 Stevens that I posted under the "Blind Hog Finds and Acorn" thread a month or so ago. (No it ain't marked! Been over it with a magnifier.) Thanks! Phil

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BP Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 8039 Location: Westside Joined: Aug 27^th, 2006	Re: Twenty TWO - twenty cartridge? Reply #1 - Mar 14^th, 2014 at 1:51am	Print Post
	Phil, Reuben Harwood 29 Avon Street Somerville, Mass Quote: " .22 calibre central fire rifles, such as the .22-15 W.C.F., .22-10 Maynard & Stevens, and many .22 "long rifle" barrels may be rechambered for "Harwood's Hornet," the new centre fire .22 calibre cartridge; 20 grs. powder and Ideal bullets of 48, 55, or 63 grains. See cut. Send 5c. for sample shell and bullet. Price for rechambering, $1.00. " "The cut" does show a bottleneck case. You can find Harwood's advertisement with "the cut" on page 74 of the No. 5 Ideal Hand Book of Useful Information for Shooters. Harwood offered reboring of barrels (but not for repeating rifles), bullet casting to order in lots of 250 (grooved or round bullets), Mogg Telescope Sight and scope mounting. Also Quote: " We manufacture shell scrapers, Bullet seaters, "Fellows" cleaning tips, Sight discs, etc. Almost all kinds of " Rifle crank's " special notions worked out. " Also mentioned are the "Harwood's Bullet Lubricating Pump" and "Harwood's jointed brass cleaning rods".

	There are three kinds of men: The ones that learn by reading, the few who learn by observation, and the rest who have to pee on the electric fence and find out for themselves. Proud Noodlehead
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.22-5-40 Oldtimer Offline Posts: 826 Joined: Feb 13^th, 2010	Re: Twenty TWO - twenty cartridge? Reply #2 - Mar 14^th, 2014 at 1:55am	Print Post
	There was a write up in the Journal awhile back about the Harwood Hornet. Yes this was marked .22 -20..I know because years ago I spied an old Ideal nickled non-adjustable tong tool marked .22-20, at a Michigan gun show..I think I got the dealer down to $8.00! At the time, I knew very little about these tools..and as others at the time opined..it was for the familar .22 Hornet. Ah..but a hornet case was much too small in dia. & length. That is when I found out about Rueben Harwoods Hornet. It was just a bit too early for it's time..still used black powder..but was designed for greater range woodchuck hunting. Interestingly, the attatched mould is exactly the same as the 45 gr. Ideal 22636..I did cast a few and they drop close to .230 dia. from 20-1 alloy.


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Deadeye Bly Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 1140 Location: Stephens City Joined: Feb 25^th, 2011	Re: Twenty TWO - twenty cartridge? Reply #3 - Mar 14^th, 2014 at 8:46am	Print Post
	I first heard of the Harwood Hornet when reading about a Maynard shooter in 1894 shooting a 22 Hornet. This was years before the Hornet cartridge we know today appeared. I e-mailed a Maynard authority and asked him about. Here is his response. What Hornet chambering is Duane Hall referring to in 1894 in .22 caliber with a fast twist taking a 66 or 75 grain bullet? I thought the .22 Hornet was developed in the 1920's by Whelen, Wotkins and others. "The earliest mention of a "Hornet" I can find is March 22, 1894 in Shooting and Fishing. The "Hornet" they are talking about is Reuben Harwood's Hornet. He took a .25-20 SS and drew the mouth down to take a bullet of .230 caliber - most of the barrels were .228 for .22 back then I think. It would hold 20 grains of powder. He and J. Stevens Arms and Tool Company furnished shells that could use the No. 1, 1-1/2, 2, or 2-1/2 size primers. The bullets weighed 48, 55, and 63 grains and molds were available from Ideal, I imagine they were the adjustable base molds so you could cast about any weight you wanted within capability of the mold. They should be listed in the 1894 Ideal catalog.. They used "duplex" loads usually (to control the fouling) of 4 grains of nitro (they don't mention what kind of nitro powder) and 16 grains of black (again - they don't mention what granulation) - they claimed this to be the equivalent of about 24 grains of black. The bullets are seated tightly in the shell WITHOUT crimp. The illustration/engraving only shows one driving band in the case, but the neck is long enough to accept the entire bullet - relatively sharp shoulder unlike the .25-20 SS. Some guys were watching Harwood shooting the gun and one remarked: "That's a regular Hornet !" and the name stuck and it became the "Harwood Hornet" in 1894. They say "Harwood conceived the idea some time ago" - so it might have even been as early as 1893 - but the article is in the March 1894 issue."


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uscra112 Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 4079 Location: Switzerland of Ohio Joined: May 7^th, 2007	Re: Twenty TWO - twenty cartridge? Reply #4 - Mar 14^th, 2014 at 7:52pm	Print Post
	Thanks, guys! The "Harwood Hornet" is probably the answer, if in fact it was made by necking down the .25-20. It would explain everything I see so far - the remaining neck is just about exactly .25-20 length from the breech end. The chamber has a sleeve in it, which would have been necessary to recut a chamber for the better known and smaller-based .22 Hornet, which in fact is what I found it to be after more careful study. As to whether the Harwood was the original chambering, who can say for sure? I only find .22-10 and .22 WCF in what histories I have. However a .22-10 could easily have been routed out to a .22-20 by some 19th century rifle crank. (Love to know who it was...) Then, long after, Bubba decided to make it a .22 Hornet, ignorant of the fact that it would not clean up the Harwood chamber, nor that the .224 bullet would rattle down that .228 barrel like gravel in a drainpipe. (I'm now pretty suspicious that Bubba was the guy I bought it from, too. That new chamber is awfully fresh-looking. No longer feeling the least bit guilty over the ultra-low price I paid.) Now the question is - do I take a Lovell reamer and recut the thing to mimic the Harwood Hornet? I've made tools to breech seat, so I guess I'll see if it shoots at all, then assay the crossing of that bridge. Meanwhile, if anyone has the Ideal book with the cut of the Harwood, could you post it here, or email me a copy? Phil

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Bent_Ramrod Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 1578 Location: Southern Arizona Joined: Feb 8^th, 2006	Re: Twenty TWO - twenty cartridge? Reply #5 - Mar 14^th, 2014 at 7:52pm	Print Post
	Here's the writeup from Shooting and Fishing on Harwood's "Hornet." Sorry for the poor photography; my Scanner still doesn't work.


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uscra112 Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 4079 Location: Switzerland of Ohio Joined: May 7^th, 2007	Re: Twenty TWO - twenty cartridge? Reply #6 - Mar 14^th, 2014 at 8:01pm	Print Post
	Wow - that's a treasure for me there, Bent Ramrod. But I can't quite read it, even blown up. Is there anywhere that that document can be found online? Does the ASSRA Archivist have it, maybe? Oh, happy day ! One feature of the picture also jives with what I've got, but haven't yet mentioned - the long section of bullet outside the case. Beyond the end of my neck, I've got a .2285 diameter cylindrical seat long enough to take that much bullet without interference. Now thinking I could run my R2 reamer in, properly piloted and holding short to recreate that shoulder while leaving the long neck. That would preclude any descendent of mine trying a Lovell cartridge in it! Phil
	« Last Edit: Mar 14^th, 2014 at 8:10pm by uscra112 »
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Bent_Ramrod Frequent Elocutionist Offline Posts: 1578 Location: Southern Arizona Joined: Feb 8^th, 2006	Re: Twenty TWO - twenty cartridge? Reply #7 - Mar 14^th, 2014 at 9:14pm	Print Post
	The issue of Shooting and Fishing is March 22, 1894. Stevens had just changed their side-plate version of the Ideal rifle to a solid frame. My picture shrinking process is limited to the freebies on line. If you want to PM me your e-mail address, I can send the 2MB photo, if your mailbox can take it. It's worth denying oneself the price of a deluxe single shot rifle in order to buy Tom Rowe's bound reprints of Shooting and Fishing. A unique look into a world that does not exist any more, as well as a time when all the Good Stuff could be bought at the local hardware store. If it's on line anywhere, I've never heard of it. The Archives might have it; the book is Series 14, pg 439. I just wish he'd continued the series and reprinted Arms and the Man as well.


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