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RSW
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Over Powder Card Wads
Dec 30th, 2013 at 12:44pm
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For years I have shot 32-40, breech seated with no over powder wads. I have used a spectrum of the usual powders: 4227, 4759, H110, Reloader 7, AA-9, etc. I’m looking to squeeze a bit more accuracy out of my bench rest rifle by trying an over powder card wad in hopes that improved powder ignition will result in tighter groups. Not that I don’t get good accuracy now, I’m just always trying to improve.
Can anyone out there who is currently shooting with over powder card wads respond with how it’s working and offer any precautions?
My intention is to use a light card wad (cut from juice cartons), positioned .2” off the powder, as Charlie Dell detailed in his book Modern Schuetzen Rifle. The biggest concern I have, is ringing the chamber of my rifle. I know Charlie’s book states the chances of that happening are slim with the wad off the powder BUT I would feel a lot better about testing if anyone can let me know how it’s working for them.
Any feedback appreciated
  
Randy W
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There are indeed two Americas. Simply put, it is not the haves and have nots. The two Americans are in reality divided into those who do and those who don't.
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JLouis
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Re: Over Powder Card Wads
Reply #1 - Dec 30th, 2013 at 2:16pm
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Randy I found when placing an over powder wad on or just off the powder in the 32-40 I experienced a substantial increase in pressure and case extraction was more than difficult. This was while trying 1/16 cork and .030 Vegetable Fiber. What I did find as an improvement but it did not seem to work for all was to place the Veg. wad into the seater and to seat behind the base of the bullet. It does create a slight adjustment of the powder to work successfully. I did not try using floral foam as the the results from the other two materials tried spooked me at the time.

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SchwarzStock
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Re: Over Powder Card Wads
Reply #2 - Dec 30th, 2013 at 3:27pm
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I believe a card wad placed 0.200" off the powder column to be a recipe for a "rung" barrel". Always use card wads (milk carton) in BP loads but never with nitro because of other's experiences with ringing barrels. I don't need to jump off the cliff...

SS
  
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Lefty38-55
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Re: Over Powder Card Wads
Reply #3 - Dec 30th, 2013 at 10:14pm
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There is a MAJOR difference between a wad and a filler, as they are not one and the same. For those powdahs I would choose a filler. Per the guru on the use of fillers vs. wads, Larry Gibson of the Cast Boolits website:

"L. Gibson (Cast Boolits post):  Does the 38-55 "need" a filler? No it doesn't, but unless you want to raise the muzzle before each shot you will have powder position sensitivity, inconsistent ignition and probable vertical stringing. I would definitely use a Dacron filler with 18-grns IMR4227 & 16-grns 2400 under a 250-gr cast bullet. Use just enough Dacron fluffed to fill the air space between the powder and the base of the bullet."

I can point you to his full post with more info, PM me if/as needed.
  
All of my single shots shoot one tiny ragged hole with cast bullets ... it's just the following shots that tend to open up my groups Wink ...
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JLouis
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Re: Over Powder Card Wads
Reply #4 - Dec 30th, 2013 at 10:50pm
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I have heard some real horror story's about using Dacron and ruined barrels. If you want to try a filler a tuft of Kapok is one I have seen used often with no ill effects to date by one in our group.

JLouis
  
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Re: Over Powder Card Wads
Reply #5 - Dec 31st, 2013 at 7:55am
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Ringing aside wads introduce another potential variable.  Might work fine one shot wad moves next shot is different.   32/40 is tapered how can you be assured of consistent position.

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RSW
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Re: Over Powder Card Wads
Reply #6 - Dec 31st, 2013 at 10:36am
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Boats:
After some thought, I figured out a method to make a thin card wad stay in place inside a 32-40 case. If I decide to proceed with an over powder wad test, I'll post a report of how it worked. The intent of using an over powder card wad is to eliminate the variable of loose powder in the cartridge case by holding the charge back at the primer flash hole.
John L:
I appreciate you feedback and unless I'm mistaken, you shoot without any sort of wad in your cases, correct? That's what I've been doing for years but am trying to eliminate that occasional random wild shot that will hit in the 23 ring for no apparent reason.
SS:
I'm with you on the over powder wad seeming to be a recipe for a ringed chamber. Before jumping off that cliff, so to speak, I thought I would post the question on this forum to see what others have experienced using over powder card wads.
Lefty:
Thank you for the tip about using a filler. I'm not inclined to go that direction because I have to re-prime and charge cases when I go to a big match like the ISSA nationals at Raton and inserting a card wad seems to me, simpler than stuffing cases with tufts of fiber.
Thank you all for taking the time to respond to my question. So far I am not real keen to proceed with this accuracy test. I don't really want to risk ringing the chamber of my prized bench rest rifle.
  
Randy W
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MIKE-T
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Re: Over Powder Card Wads
Reply #7 - Dec 31st, 2013 at 11:21am
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RSW I have fired 1000's of rounds of breech seated ammo in a CPA 32-40W in CBA competition from 2003 until 2011 using a .100" pure cork wad (not composition gasket material with rubber or something else added with the cork) seated .100" off the powder, I like you found that I had no problem with the wad moving, I pre-loaded around 125rnds for each match with powder and wad seated above, never had one move and one match I dove over 200 miles on cr*ppy MI roads to get there, always opened the boxes and shined flash light in to cases to check wad height, Not one ever moved. No rings in two different barrels I used over that time period!

Shot some decent scores and got rid of the pesky flyer that would show up at least once a match without the cork wad, my buddy used the foam but it never worked as well as the cork wad in his 32-40 CPA now if I could read the wind I might have done a whole lot better!

By the way I used 196gr Hoch mould #323195 bullets over 13.3grs of VVN110 powder, the cleanest burning powder I've ever fired in the 32-40.
Mike
« Last Edit: Dec 31st, 2013 at 1:08pm by MIKE-T »  
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JLouis
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Re: Over Powder Card Wads
Reply #8 - Dec 31st, 2013 at 11:39am
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Randy I do not use a wad in the 32-40 but I do use floral foam just off the powder with the Darr 28.

JLouis
  
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40_Rod
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Re: Over Powder Card Wads
Reply #9 - Jan 1st, 2014 at 9:33am
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When I use 4227 in a 32-40 cases I put in a .33 cal wad and seat it it has just enough grip to keep it in place over a charge of 4227.
  When using ball powders I use a Rocky Mountain Reduced capacity case. It is a 32-40 on the outside with a stright walled cavity inside. This lets me put a 32 wad anywhere along the inside of the case.

40 Rod
  
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