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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Weighing bullets - process control (Read 47288 times)
Cat_Whisperer
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Re: Weighing bullets - process control
Reply #90 - Dec 3rd, 2013 at 6:08am
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shovel80 wrote on Dec 2nd, 2013 at 10:39pm:
Just my opinion, but I think Your WAY Overthinking casting.... Smiley

Getting good bullets isn't that difficult, you just have to work a system that works for you and be consistent at it...

Terry Smiley


I agree.  But I'm learning the principles in the process, and presenting my observations for review.  When I'm done with the process I will have shown myself what is and what is not important.  I will KNOW from experience and be able to simplify.
  

Cat Whisperer (trk)
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Re: Weighing bullets - process control
Reply #91 - Dec 3rd, 2013 at 6:11am
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It's just part of finding out this stuff for myself.
  

Cat Whisperer (trk)
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Chuckster
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Re: Weighing bullets - process control
Reply #92 - Dec 4th, 2013 at 10:10am
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Cat,
Keep it up. I know all of us are experts at casting but we are learning some things. It is nice to see someone else having the same problems we have had and, maybe, different solutions.
Chuck
  
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Re: Weighing bullets - process control
Reply #93 - Dec 4th, 2013 at 12:47pm
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"maybe, different solutions."
I like this thought Chuck.
Cary
  
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Re: Weighing bullets - process control
Reply #94 - Dec 4th, 2013 at 8:31pm
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Thanks, Chuck.  I'm after it.  Still waiting for a couple of PID controllers to come in.  Played around with LabVIEW and a USB data acquisition interface for a thermocouple the last several days.  More jpg's and charts coming.  There will CERTAINLY be different methods that work.  I'm just digging in a bit deeper to figure out what is and is not critical.  Already I've changed my mind on what caused which based on some of the results that I've posted in this thread.
  

Cat Whisperer (trk)
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Re: Weighing bullets - process control
Reply #95 - Dec 5th, 2013 at 9:05am
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You are putting some $$/effort into this if you've paid for Labview and the interface bits. Will be most interested in the pic's of your melt temp under PID control. The little $35 controller I've been using has fuzzy logic, so the longer you run it each casting session the better the control. Am also giving the pot a good stir with the ladle about every 4-5 bullets to insure there is no stratification in the melt.
  

Glenn - 2x CPA 44 1/2 w/22LR (Shilen ratchet-rifled & Bartlein 5R rifled), 38-40RH & 38-55WCF (Bartlein 5R rifled) & 40-65WCF (GrnMtn 'X') barrels
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Re: Weighing bullets - process control
Reply #96 - Dec 5th, 2013 at 10:34am
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It's not that expensive, by using the RUN-TIME (free) I can run the programs (executables) that I develop elsewhere - further LabVIEW allows you to have a copy at home if you have the license at work).

So my investment is merely to put my computer in my casting area.

You've added some variables - good.  I want to monitor alloy temp (near the nozzle) to compare with mould temp and the various times to compare with bullet weight.

PID control and STIRRING/STRATIFICATION adds more variables.

Good thing Christmas break is coming up.
  

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Re: Weighing bullets - process control
Reply #97 - Dec 11th, 2013 at 9:33pm
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No posts in a week. Stop goofing off and start casting and presenting the data. Wink

Just cast 55 bullets in a PJ 38cal mould I recently purchased from a member here. Using 20-1 @ an indicated 775F and a ladle, the lightest bullet weighed 367.64gn and the heaviest weighed 368.54gn. Did not bother plotting the curve as can live with the 0.9gn variation (0.9/368=0.244%, close enough for gov't work). 

Assuming the rifle/load is capable of holding 1.5moa, that's about 8" at 547yd (500m). 1.00244x8"=well under 0.1" additional variation at that distance. This, of courses, assumes that everything is linear, based on bullet weight (I like simple).
  

Glenn - 2x CPA 44 1/2 w/22LR (Shilen ratchet-rifled & Bartlein 5R rifled), 38-40RH & 38-55WCF (Bartlein 5R rifled) & 40-65WCF (GrnMtn 'X') barrels
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Re: Weighing bullets - process control
Reply #98 - Dec 11th, 2013 at 11:02pm
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O.K.,,,,,I want to know how you are weighing bullets to 1/100 of a grain??? Undecided Undecided
Cary
  
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Re: Weighing bullets - process control
Reply #99 - Dec 12th, 2013 at 5:28am
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Very simple. I gently place them one at a time on a GemPro 250 scale, which weighs to +/- 0.02gn. So is actually weighing to 2-hundredths of a grain. Was using a PACT scale that weighed to 0.1gn, but it was so slow to respond I figured almost anything was better. The GemPro 250 was the least expensive alternative that got decent reviews from the high power shooters (bench & long-range), who are a whole lot more anal than we are in their loading (for instance, some 'wash' their bullets in acetone to remove any residual mfg lube to insure consistency, etc.). Many of them think the GemPro 250 is not nearly good enough and use $500-1000 scales with even higher resolution. Here is where I got mine:
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Edit: John Boy posted this link earlier in this thread for a considerably less expensive alternative:
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I've ask Santa Claus to put one in my stocking as a back-up to the more expensive GemPro 250.
« Last Edit: Dec 12th, 2013 at 5:39am by SSShooter »  

Glenn - 2x CPA 44 1/2 w/22LR (Shilen ratchet-rifled & Bartlein 5R rifled), 38-40RH & 38-55WCF (Bartlein 5R rifled) & 40-65WCF (GrnMtn 'X') barrels
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Cat_Whisperer
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Re: Weighing bullets - process control
Reply #100 - Dec 12th, 2013 at 7:25am
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I just got the less expensive version.

I LIKE the fact that it has a connector on the back for a DC plug-in power supply (wall wart).  So since the 4 AAA cells start out at about 6v and get replaced when down to some voltage, I plugged in a regulated 5vdc supply - to ensure a consistent supply voltage.  Then during the day I would measure the two 20gram weights and a 330grain bullet and record the readings.  Room temperature (which I'd measured before) varies only a degree or two.   

On MY copy of this scale there was some variation throughout the day, perhaps a total of 0.5gr, less on the smaller (330gr) mass used.

FWIW.  Just trying to account for the sources of variation.
  

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Re: Weighing bullets - process control
Reply #101 - Dec 12th, 2013 at 9:52am
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Did notice that there is no wallwart with the less expensive model, which is no biggie. The one that comes with the GemPro 250 is likely worth about $5. Have a much heavier 1A wall wart that will use once I figure out where I hid it. Was used with a phono-preamp, so is pretty decent. May not need it, but several folks have suggested using a ferrite noise suppressor on any AC powered feed, which I've done since I had one handy. They are about $2 if not. With a well regulated supply is likely not needed.
  

Glenn - 2x CPA 44 1/2 w/22LR (Shilen ratchet-rifled & Bartlein 5R rifled), 38-40RH & 38-55WCF (Bartlein 5R rifled) & 40-65WCF (GrnMtn 'X') barrels
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Re: Weighing bullets - process control
Reply #102 - Dec 12th, 2013 at 10:37am
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I am not sure that regulation is NOT needed.  Don't know, but since I had one that was regulated it guarantees one less source of variation.

Ferrite noise suppression won't hurt.   

  

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Re: Weighing bullets - process control
Reply #103 - Dec 12th, 2013 at 11:26am
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I wonder if you get into the upper end of the measuring range for this unit, i.e. 520 - 600gr if you will still get the same accuracy?  It seems sometimes when you get to the extremes on digital measuring devices accuracy suffers, especially on less expensive models.

Cary
  
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Re: Weighing bullets - process control
Reply #104 - Dec 12th, 2013 at 12:08pm
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Used to use the 'middle 60%' rule with electronics. However, with modern design & mfg, think that can be broadened quite a bit. Might be more like 'middle 90%' these days. I'm quite happy weighing the 36-40gn loads for my 6.5x47L for high power. I don't really worry that the 37.5gn I want is actually 37.5gn or 37.3 or 37.7. I just want it to be consistent form load-to-load so that I don't suffer vertical stringing at the longer distances. Same for my BP loads (58 - 62gn). The one that will be the most interesting is the 25-20 once I start loading 9 -12gn. That will be the challenge with these scales.
  

Glenn - 2x CPA 44 1/2 w/22LR (Shilen ratchet-rifled & Bartlein 5R rifled), 38-40RH & 38-55WCF (Bartlein 5R rifled) & 40-65WCF (GrnMtn 'X') barrels
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