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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Fitting the mould to the chamber/throat (Read 10897 times)
Cat_Whisperer
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Fitting the mould to the chamber/throat
Feb 22nd, 2014 at 4:42pm
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I must have a couple dozen moulds that are UNDERSIZED.  What a waste.  Most produce GOOD LOOKING bullets too!

So, I'm thinking of chucking one or two up in the 4 jaw chuck and opening them up a little - maybe 3 or 4 thousandths - to just match or go .001 over groove size.

Can I get away with two cutters - one for the base band and one more rounded to adjust the front of the bore-riding area?

Who's done this?   

  

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Dales
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Re: Fitting the mould to the chamber/throat
Reply #1 - Feb 22nd, 2014 at 5:04pm
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Recutting base area has worked for me have also removed gas check to make a plain base bullet.
Never put a tool in deep enough to turn bore riding area maybe if I had dig. readout .
What I have done in this area is to cast a bullet ,drill and tap the base(leaving tap in the bullet) .cut vertical groove in the bullet and use lapping compound in the area to be enlarged and spin the bullet in the drill press .  Has worked for me.

Dales
  
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ledball
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Re: Fitting the mould to the chamber/throat
Reply #2 - Feb 22nd, 2014 at 5:11pm
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Another idea would be to make as swaging outfit, then you could do most anything you want to do with those under-sized bullets, any size, any ogive, etc.  ledball
  
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Re: Fitting the mould to the chamber/throat
Reply #3 - Feb 22nd, 2014 at 5:21pm
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Cat_Whisperer,

Like Dales, have opened up some bases to eliminate the gas checked area and get good fit, using a very short and large shank boring-bar (to minimize tool flex) with appropriate small tip size and shape.
Haven't changed the bore-riding area ahead of the forward grease-groove, as believe it would align as well as a tapered bullet does during breech-seating, but with fixed loads, may be beneficial to do so.

  

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Cat_Whisperer
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Re: Fitting the mould to the chamber/throat
Reply #4 - Feb 22nd, 2014 at 5:24pm
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I've got to try both, as the bore riding area is a sloppy fit - not even close.

  

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Re: Fitting the mould to the chamber/throat
Reply #5 - Feb 22nd, 2014 at 5:44pm
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Cat,

I use some different length plunger-type dial indicators with magnetic bases that I use for depth control when doing critical boring/drilling. You can put them at various locations on the bed of the lathe, with the plunger preloaded against some spot of the carriage, so that when you move the carriage, you can closely read and control the travel.
Let us know how it works out for you.

  

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frnkeore
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Re: Fitting the mould to the chamber/throat
Reply #6 - Feb 22nd, 2014 at 5:45pm
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Your talking about a very delicate and skilled operation here. You'll at least need a .0001 dial indicator for the radial axis and a very good small boring bar. Plus a dial indicator on the cartridge.

Maybe a good sweat band too Smiley

Frank
  

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Re: Fitting the mould to the chamber/throat
Reply #7 - Feb 22nd, 2014 at 5:56pm
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One other thing........ you need to be careful dialing in the mold. If the mold halfs have any off set, when you push on that area, you'll push the mold halfs away from each other (see my thread on fixing out of round molds) making your cuts out of round of the mold. 

The other thing is the axis of the mold cavity has got to be inline with the lathe carriage, or the nose area won't be inline with the base. You need a pin with a push fit on the small dia of the mold, that protrudes out enough to indicate that axis for that length so, you know that the mold cavity is inline with the carriage.

Frank
  

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Re: Fitting the mould to the chamber/throat
Reply #8 - Feb 22nd, 2014 at 7:04pm
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Have you thoght of listing them for sale? Just a thought if you find that trying to turn one on he lathe doesn't work out for you.

Jesse
  
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Re: Fitting the mould to the chamber/throat
Reply #9 - Feb 22nd, 2014 at 9:31pm
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cat_whisperer, I have done this many times. Learned early on to confine myself to modifying BASE BAND diameters only. Have a few that are only good for fishing weights where I tried to get inside and modify bands deeper in the cavity. When chucking in 4 jaw I shim the blocks on all 4 sides to protect them from Jaw damage when pushing the mold around with the jaws. Also use some fairly thick stanless shim stock .025 thick or better on all 4 sides. Also try to get indicator readings running true in two places at the same time.
This basicly guarantees true concentricity all the way in the mold. And a good square base. HTH Regards, FITZ. Smiley
  

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Re: Fitting the mould to the chamber/throat
Reply #10 - Feb 22nd, 2014 at 9:45pm
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Lots of good tips, thanks!
Now to wait for a warm day (no heat in the shop).
It will be interesting to see if the axis of the cavity is actually perpendicular to the top surface of the mould.
  

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JS47
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Re: Fitting the mould to the chamber/throat
Reply #11 - Feb 22nd, 2014 at 11:28pm
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I have lapped quite a few molds by spinning a drilled bullet in the mold.  I usually just do it to polish them to make them drop better but I have enlarged a mold up to .002.
I chuck up a bullet in the lathe and drill a hole in the base the right size for a sheet rock screw, one long enough to have an unthreaded section near the head.  I cut off the head with a wheel in the dremmel tool. Start the hole with a center drill.  I spin the bullet with a cordless drill.  If you want to lapp out the bore ride area only, file off some of the body diameter before you add the compound while spinning it.  My neighbor claims he has enlarged a mold nose up to about .005 this way.  180 grit works pretty fast.  Make sure you keep the mold faces clean so they will close completely, otherwise you might end up with an out of round bullet.

John Shaw
  
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Re: Fitting the mould to the chamber/throat
Reply #12 - Feb 23rd, 2014 at 12:46am
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CW sell what does not work and buy what does, in your endeavor should you end up with an out of balance bullet there will be no hope of obtaining excellent accuracy and it will all be for naught. Chucking a lead tin alloy bullet in a lathe chuck without changing its true balanced form is in my opinion virtually impossible and then to use it as a lap spun by a hand drill with the intent of ending up with a larger yet concentric and balanced bullet is asking a bit much. There is no doubt that one can lap out a mould to enlarge it, it is indeed a very simple process but I have yet to see one end up being round let alone being balanced.

JLouis

  

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Re: Fitting the mould to the chamber/throat
Reply #13 - Feb 23rd, 2014 at 4:32am
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JLouis,

It is my firm belief that a person will never learn what can or cannot be done unless they are willing to try.
They may gain knowledge by making the attempt...  they won't if they don't.

  

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Cat_Whisperer
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Re: Fitting the mould to the chamber/throat
Reply #14 - Feb 23rd, 2014 at 8:47am
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Good points, John.  But are not lathe-bored moulds supposedly more-better than cherry-cut moulds?   

I think the place to start is by taking in the mould(s) to work and finding out what's there on the CMM.

One would ASSUME that each half of the mould was held in one of the two vice jaws on the center-closing vice and therefore would be good datums to relocate in the 4 jaw chuck.

It may be that the surfaces were trued after the cavity was cut.  But at least the top surface should be perpendicular to the axis of the cavity.

This is going to be a learning process.  Hmmm. Should I use the Lyman or the Saeco mould first?   

Even if I trash a mould or two (or make them candidates for larger diameter bullets) I'll be able to make a comparison of (at least) two different features on a given cavity - which shoots better "a" or "b".
  

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