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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Building a Smallbore Prone gun on a Martini MkIII? (Read 15059 times)
Paul_F.
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Building a Smallbore Prone gun on a Martini MkIII?
Oct 28th, 2013 at 12:58pm
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Friend and fellow gun club member chose to move out of state, and was selling off some things - among them something I've salivated over since he bought it - a BSA Martini MkIII in Left Handed.

So now i'm the proud but somewhat broker owner of said rifle, and I'm thinking about turning into a rifle for Smallbore Prone.  I love my Left Handed Anschutz 1811L, but it's a HEAVY rifle!

My two top "problems" to solve are;
1 - building a good adjustable (cheekpiece and butt-plate/hook ) buttstock and
2 - Mounting a good iron-sight to it. The Parker Hale that's on it has seen better days.

Does anyone have knowledge of a "modernized" Martini prone rifle (and builder?) or have pictures of such a project I could get ideas from?

Particularly useful would be pictures or drawings of adaptations of Anschutz or other good iron sights to the MkIII in left hand (since the mounting rail is on the "other" side from a "regular" one.

Would also be grateful for descriptions, stories, etc of little details like bedding, etc. also.

  
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QuestionableMaynard8130
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Re: Building a Smallbore Prone gun on a Martini MkIII?
Reply #1 - Oct 28th, 2013 at 2:05pm
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Have you tried searching for old Al Freeland catalogues? I do not know exactly what the diff would be between a modern "prone' rifle and a vintage 3-position rifle.   
You might find some for sale on ebay/Amazon/ABE. 
Possibly site members who have them might be able to copy relevant pages for you.

Would a modern/replica tang mounted midrange/schuetzen soule-style rear sight work in your application?
Have you contacted Appleton's?   he sold parts as well as whole rifles.  who knows what might still be available
  

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Fred Boulton
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Re: Building a Smallbore Prone gun on a Martini MkIII?
Reply #2 - Oct 28th, 2013 at 3:38pm
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There is an Al Freeland tube sight going on the Uk version of E bay just now. (You need to Login or Register to view media files and links).
Fred
  
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Paul_F.
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Re: Building a Smallbore Prone gun on a Martini MkIII?
Reply #3 - Oct 28th, 2013 at 3:43pm
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DWS;
Thanks for the ideas!
I'm early in the ideas phase. Haven't done much web searching yet, because I'm currently at work, and the internet is "filtered" and blocks most useful sites for gun stuff.

Don't know of a tang-sight that would work really well for prone, I'd wear the windage adjustments out pretty fast.

Main difference between "classic" prone and 3-p rifles and today's is the adjustability of the stock and the durability and repeatability of the rear sight. 
Don't think the sight is going to be a big issue... just have to sit down and figure out which sight will fit best, and make an adapter to fit it.... But if someone has already invented that wheel, I'd be happy to see what they've done.

Paul F.


QuestionableMaynard8130 wrote on Oct 28th, 2013 at 2:05pm:
Have you tried searching for old Al Freeland catalogues? I do not know exactly what the diff would be between a modern "prone' rifle and a vintage 3-position rifle.  
You might find some for sale on ebay/Amazon/ABE. 
Possibly site members who have them might be able to copy relevant pages for you.

Would a modern/replica tang mounted midrange/schuetzen soule-style rear sight work in your application?
Have you contacted Appleton's?   he sold parts as well as whole rifles.  who knows what might still be available

  
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Paul_F.
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Re: Building a Smallbore Prone gun on a Martini MkIII?
Reply #4 - Oct 28th, 2013 at 3:48pm
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Fred Boulton wrote on Oct 28th, 2013 at 3:38pm:
There is an Al Freeland tube sight going on the Uk version of E bay just now. (You need to Login or Register to view media files and links).
Fred


Nice!
That's actually one of my plans for a rear sight!
I'll have to watch that auction...

  
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QuestionableMaynard8130
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Re: Building a Smallbore Prone gun on a Martini MkIII?
Reply #5 - Oct 28th, 2013 at 5:40pm
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take a look at the Martini CMM just put out on the for sale/trade etc sub forum---especially the butt plate
  

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Rigby
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Re: Building a Smallbore Prone gun on a Martini MkIII?
Reply #6 - Oct 28th, 2013 at 7:42pm
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I didn't do any stock work to mine but did install a new barrel on my MkIII left hand and I made a new sight mount as I used my Warner hi power sights on the gun. I don't have the gun anymore (regret) as I'm looking for another but I have a sample of my first try at the sight mount. Think it's in my tool box at work. I'll dig it up and take a picture for you. 

Later, Frank
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Paul_F.
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Re: Building a Smallbore Prone gun on a Martini MkIII?
Reply #7 - Oct 28th, 2013 at 11:04pm
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I would very much appreciate a picture of a Warner on a Martini (even though mine is left handed, and may pose problems mounting one...). If I have to buy a sight, it would probably be a Warner... and the irony is, I'd already decided that if I had to buy a barrel, I'd be investigating a Bartlein.  Smiley

If you happen to find that mount, I would appreciate seeing a picture (feel free to PM me!).
Paul F.

Quote:
I didn't do any stock work to mine but did install a new barrel on my MkIII left hand and I made a new sight mount as I used my Warner hi power sights on the gun. I don't have the gun anymore (regret) as I'm looking for another but I have a sample of my first try at the sight mount. Think it's in my tool box at work. I'll dig it up and take a picture for you. 

Later, Frank
Bartlein Barrels

  
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westerner
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Re: Building a Smallbore Prone gun on a Martini MkIII?
Reply #8 - Oct 29th, 2013 at 6:02am
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Wasn't the BSA Mark 3 an excellent prone rifle as made? I had one, it was a full blown three position rifle. Don't see how it could be improved, except for OH shooting. Was a terrible OH rifle for me. Didnt fit my OH style/position. The Parker Hale sights are excellent. Don't know how changing sights would improve the rifle. Lots of meat on a PH sight. A tough rugged sight to say the least. Sights can be repaired.
Don't mean to rain on your parade, but a different train of thought on the subject

     Joe. 





  

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boats
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Re: Building a Smallbore Prone gun on a Martini MkIII?
Reply #9 - Oct 29th, 2013 at 7:03am
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Make sure it will shoot and you like the trigger.  Reason I passed on Martinis and shot Anschutz 54 is the trigger. You have to have adjustable cheek for the US SB prone match. It  has iron and scope legs 50 & 100 yards need to adjust comb height when switching. Buy a kit or have it done, takes precise bandsaw work. I had it done by Neil Johnson for a couple hundred dollars.

Buttplate, is a personal thing. Old Anschutz worked for me, new ones are the best, twist and elevate, I would like to have canted the rifle, up and down only plate would not allow it. Cant may or may not have picked up a few points.

Front sight get a two step base so you can move between 50 & 100 saves clicking and keeps head position same.  Rear is a crap shoot if using any of the old sights. Check for backlash with the dial indicator my old Anschutz did fine, most of the American older names are not up to the job.  New Anschutz is the standard but expensive, The high dollar across the course new sights may be fine.   Scope old Weaver T 16 is hard to beat. Repeating clicks is what's important, without a good repeatable sight capable of clicking small tweaks you are sunk.

You need screw in filters arpeture etc. Add coat glove sling mat spotting scope it's complicated and expensive. There is a web site for Olympic style shooters might get a lot of the stuff used cheap. If new might as well buy a new rifle. But you have one already.

I am glad I shot SB prone 3 years I lived in Australia. Learned a lot, best lesson, you need good equipment to do well. Few sighter shots, after every one counts, winners from also ran just a point or two.  Sight is the most important part of the package.  Trigger then Barrel next. 

Update found the site, it's the one I sold my Anschutz Super Match 54 through. Plenty of used stuff for sale

(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)

Boats
« Last Edit: Oct 29th, 2013 at 10:36am by boats »  
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Paul_F.
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Re: Building a Smallbore Prone gun on a Martini MkIII?
Reply #10 - Oct 29th, 2013 at 11:17am
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The MkIII is absolutely a great rifle... but I'm sorta hard to fit into a standard prone rifle... I don't know if my arms are too short, or too long, or what., but I need some adjustment in the stock to get me in a stable position.
This Parker Hale WAS an excellent sight.. until someone dropped the rifle on it. More than once. It looks like it's been beaten back into shape a couple times. Bottom line: I don't trust it.
I have a set of Anschutz sights I trust (and so does my dial indicator). Getting the Anschutz rear on there is probably a lost cause though.


westerner wrote on Oct 29th, 2013 at 6:02am:
Wasn't the BSA Mark 3 an excellent prone rifle as made? I had one, it was a full blown three position rifle. Don't see how it could be improved, except for OH shooting. Was a terrible OH rifle for me. Didnt fit my OH style/position. The Parker Hale sights are excellent. Don't know how changing sights would improve the rifle. Lots of meat on a PH sight. A tough rugged sight to say the least. Sights can be repaired.
Don't mean to rain on your parade, but a different train of thought on the subject

     Joe. 






  
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Paul_F.
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Re: Building a Smallbore Prone gun on a Martini MkIII?
Reply #11 - Oct 29th, 2013 at 11:28am
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Boats;
I LOVE my Anschutz 1811L (54) trigger... Love it, love it!
But I have handled another MKIII with an equally sweet trigger (albeit single stage) that gives me hope that I can get that out of this MKIII.  I will be settling that detail before I start spending money on sights and stocks, however. 

I'm also totally sold on a two-step front base. Been using one for years on my 1811L.  I'd hug the guy that invented that after the first couple seasons twisting my anschutz sight between 50 and 100yds.

I'm starting to think that "scratch building" a hardware-type butt and pistol grip on this rifle might be almost as easy as carving up the original to add a cheekpiece. AND it may be lighter too. 

On a totally off topic side note, am I the only one that finds the 2000 character limit really obnoxious? I can't quote Boats post so I can respond to each point without running out of characters! Seems we lost something in a software upgrade...
  
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boats
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Re: Building a Smallbore Prone gun on a Martini MkIII?
Reply #12 - Oct 29th, 2013 at 12:46pm
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Your 1811 is a bit newer than my 54 and a fine rifle.

It was a tough call for me Shooting Small bore Prone in Australia, Used Club Rifles, went for the Martini first, being a single shot fan.  Old timer talked me out of it said if I cared about scores use the Anschutz. In the end it was the right choice. I did OK, better than if I had shot the Martini.  I brought the Match 54 back home and shot a few American Prone matches with it, ended up selling it off.  Single shots and Schuetzen are my first choice.

Having said that our club single shot matches two guys that I always trade places with score wise are using Martini Intls, As good as my CPA, except for the triggers. Double set is a clear advantage.  Offhand tang sight on the CPA is not a negative, Prone it would be impossible to work with, no clicks. Still have a eye for Martini's don't own one.

When I was a kid shooting 3 P small bore used a Stevens ex Government target bolt rifle. Had a no name rear sight that moved when it should have stayed. I can still remember my dad working on that sight shim stock squeezing in the vice everything never got it to be repeatable.

I vowed never to shoot with a poor sight again, rest of the rifle can be rough sight has to be right, it controls every single shot.

You ought to call Steve Earle he makes all sorts of adaptors, No good reason your Anschutz sight can't hang on the Martini action. Steve has some adaptors that hang the sight off Unertl barrel scope blocks that could work.

Boats
  
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westerner
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Re: Building a Smallbore Prone gun on a Martini MkIII?
Reply #13 - Oct 29th, 2013 at 1:41pm
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Never tried my MKIII in position. Always assumed they fit everyone. Trying to shoot it OH was like trying to hold a log up there. 

     Joe.
  

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Paul_F.
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Re: Building a Smallbore Prone gun on a Martini MkIII?
Reply #14 - Oct 29th, 2013 at 4:20pm
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I tried shooting my Anschutz 1811L offhand once... I couldn't hold the muzzle up without help! 

westerner wrote on Oct 29th, 2013 at 1:41pm:
Never tried my MKIII in position. Always assumed they fit everyone. Trying to shoot it OH was like trying to hold a log up there. 

     Joe.

  
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