Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2  Send TopicPrint
Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) 40-65 for the Shiloh Sharps Model 1874 ... (Read 13781 times)
Joe Do...
Oldtimer
ASSRA Board Member
ASSRA Journal Editor
*****
Online



Posts: 586
Location: 'burbs of Chicago
Joined: May 19th, 2012
40-65 for the Shiloh Sharps Model 1874 ...
Sep 9th, 2013 at 9:15pm
Print Post  
A few months ago I bought a Shiloh Sharps Model 1874 chambered in 40-65.  The rifle was built in the mid '90s but is flat new.  Without having to do a chamber cast or slugging the bore, does anyone with one of these fine rifles know what the groove diameter is?
A friend gave me two boxes of Snover .40 SPG ... They are measuring .409 -.410 and I found the bullet weight on line at 410grs.  Will this work?
Any and all help is appreciated.
Thank you ...
Joe D
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
MikeT
Senior Forum Member
****
Offline



Posts: 294
Location: St. Cloud, MN
Joined: Sep 7th, 2005
Re: 40-65 for the Shiloh Sharps Model 1874 ...
Reply #1 - Sep 9th, 2013 at 11:21pm
Print Post  
If the cartridge will chamber after seating the bullet in the case, then shoot it.  Shiloh's have tight chambers and the .410 diameter may not chamber.  I shoot 0.408 bullets in my 40 caliber Shiloh rifles.

Make up a test [dummy] cartridge to determine if you will have chambering issues with the 0.410 bullet.

Keep on hav'n fun!
MikeT
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
singleshotsam
Oldtimer
*****
Offline



Posts: 558
Location: Silver City NM
Joined: Jan 15th, 2009
Re: 40-65 for the Shiloh Sharps Model 1874 ...
Reply #2 - Sep 10th, 2013 at 12:09am
Print Post  
  Another issue you might want to aware of is that Shiloh and Ballard Rifle and Cartridge use a different chamber design on their 40-65. RCBS makes a set of dies specifically labeled "Shiloh and Ballard" I ran into this issue several years back and had to return a set of dies and procure the correct ones before I could load ammo for my rifle. Things may have changed, anyone else please chime in if they know any additional input on this particular issue.

SSS
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
SSShooter
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 2917
Location: Southern NJ
Joined: Aug 1st, 2010
Re: 40-65 for the Shiloh Sharps Model 1874 ...
Reply #3 - Sep 10th, 2013 at 7:07am
Print Post  
Nice rifle! 
One of the folks I shoot with uses a Shiloh 40-65 and set our club's mid-range prone record last month with a fine 99-1, 95-2, 93-2, 287-5X with his. His load is 58gr of 2F Swiss in a Starline or Rem case shooting a 400gr Creedmoor bullet. He posts here occasionally. I'll call his attention to this thread.

Edit - make that 1 1/2F Swiss and a 420gr Creedmoor bullet (see John's post below). 

Also, it is my understanding that Shiloh made a big change to their in-house barrel making sometime in the late '90s - early '00s, so there is a good chance that your rifle is previous to the up-grade.
« Last Edit: Sep 10th, 2013 at 9:54am by SSShooter »  

Glenn - 2x CPA 44 1/2 w/22LR (Shilen ratchet-rifled & Bartlein 5R rifled), 38-40RH & 38-55WCF (Bartlein 5R rifled) & 40-65WCF (GrnMtn 'X') barrels
Back to top
GTalk  
IP Logged
 
nuclearcricket
Oldtimer
*****
Offline



Posts: 745
Joined: Oct 15th, 2008
Re: 40-65 for the Shiloh Sharps Model 1874 ...
Reply #4 - Sep 10th, 2013 at 8:32am
Print Post  
Joe, from what I have seen on the Shiloh board is the bore should be .400, with a grove of .408. I am not sure of the twist but you can check that on your own with a cleaning rod and tight patch. 
One problem I ran into with my 40-65 was the chamber was cut with a small base reamer. Mind is on a Browning 78 action. I couldn't quite chamber cases run through a standard CH die, but I did manage to pick up someplace  a FL die that someone had shortened and once I ran the cases through that die they chambered just fine. Once they are sized with the shortened die I didn't need to use it again, just use the Standard FL die to reload and all worked well. 
Your Shiloh should be a very good shooter with that Snover bullet. If this is your first venture into the world of shooting black, a case full of powder, a little compression, an over powder wad, and then I like to add a wax paper wad, then your bullet. The wax paper will prevent your over powder wad from sticking to the bullet and the wax paper will easily fall off with no effect on the bullet. 
If it should happen that you would need to run your cases through my shortened die, let me know and you can borrow it for the price of mailing it to you. 
Sam
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Deadeye Bly
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 1057
Location: Stephens City
Joined: Feb 25th, 2011
Re: 40-65 for the Shiloh Sharps Model 1874 ...
Reply #5 - Sep 10th, 2013 at 8:36am
Print Post  
I have a Shiloh 1874 in 40/65. It is much newer than yours. The bore/groove is .400/.408 with a 16" twist. I size my bullets to .409" diameter. The Shiloh chamber is tight and has a fairly short throat. I shoot the Brooks Creedmoor at 420 grains in 30/1 with a reduced diameter front band to allow me to seat it out for more powder capacity.

I shoot 1 1/2 Swiss powder, 58 grains in Rem brass or 57 grains in Starline brass with fed 210M primers and a .060 fiber wad on the powder. Once cases are fireformed I neck size in a Lyman neck die. I seat the bullets with a Redding competition die. I hope this helps get your rifle shooting.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Joe Do...
Oldtimer
ASSRA Board Member
ASSRA Journal Editor
*****
Online



Posts: 586
Location: 'burbs of Chicago
Joined: May 19th, 2012
Re: 40-65 for the Shiloh Sharps Model 1874 ...
Reply #6 - Sep 10th, 2013 at 10:00pm
Print Post  
Thank you All for your help.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
ClaMar
Full Member
***
Offline



Posts: 141
Location: Texas
Joined: Jul 23rd, 2013
Re: 40-65 for the Shiloh Sharps Model 1874 ...
Reply #7 - Sep 11th, 2013 at 4:25pm
Print Post  
I have a Shiloh built in 1996, and it will just chamber a 0.410" bullet in Winchester .45-70 necked -down brass without interference.  Arguably the most accurate BPCR I own.

Clarence
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
SSShooter
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 2917
Location: Southern NJ
Joined: Aug 1st, 2010
Re: 40-65 for the Shiloh Sharps Model 1874 ...
Reply #8 - Sep 11th, 2013 at 9:05pm
Print Post  
Clarence - what bullet and load do you shoot in your rifle?
  

Glenn - 2x CPA 44 1/2 w/22LR (Shilen ratchet-rifled & Bartlein 5R rifled), 38-40RH & 38-55WCF (Bartlein 5R rifled) & 40-65WCF (GrnMtn 'X') barrels
Back to top
GTalk  
IP Logged
 
rr2241tx
Full Member
***
Offline



Posts: 104
Location: San Marcos
Joined: Mar 27th, 2012
Re: 40-65 for the Shiloh Sharps Model 1874 ...
Reply #9 - Sep 12th, 2013 at 1:20pm
Print Post  
Until you chamber cast and slug the bore of your rifle, you are just playing pinata.  You might get lucky or you may spend a lot of money for very little improvement in results.  Casting alloy is a lot cheaper than guessing.

That said, I have been using reformed WCC line throwing charge brass, 66 gr. of Old Eynsford 2F, 0.019 card wad and a 420 gr Paul Jones Creedmoor bullet to miss BPCR silhouettes with my Sharps for the last several months. I think I have a loose nut behind the butt.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
John Boy
Ex Member


Re: 40-65 for the Shiloh Sharps Model 1874 ...
Reply #10 - Sep 12th, 2013 at 9:24pm
Print Post  
Shoot 56 grains of KIK 2f with the Saeco 740 and 57 grains of the same powder with the Saeco 640.
Tested extensively by Bill Bagwell (rdnck)
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
ClaMar
Full Member
***
Offline



Posts: 141
Location: Texas
Joined: Jul 23rd, 2013
Re: 40-65 for the Shiloh Sharps Model 1874 ...
Reply #11 - Sep 13th, 2013 at 7:56pm
Print Post  
I shoot a 420 gr. Gunn-type bullet from Pioneer Products, just under 0.410".  Enough 1.5Fg Swiss to give ~0.060" compression with a 0.060" Walters wad, with the bullet slightly into the lands.

I'm experimenting with a 0.408" diameter Money bullet from Buffalo Arms, and it also seems to shoot well, but not enough practice to feel comfortable wiping in a match.

Clarence
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
SSShooter
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 2917
Location: Southern NJ
Joined: Aug 1st, 2010
Re: 40-65 for the Shiloh Sharps Model 1874 ...
Reply #12 - Sep 13th, 2013 at 9:02pm
Print Post  
Wiping between shots is no sweat. You'll establish a rhythm and will hardly notice that you are doing it. Get a tuper-ware container for your patches and wet with your favorite elixir and you're ready to go. I use the Arsenal patches and a stiff brush on the rod and use a 20:1 mix of water:water-soluble cutting oil and works well.

Also have the 400gr 'Money' bullet, as well as the 450gr. My 40-65 should be back from John Taylor next week and will see how 58gr of 1 1/2F Swiss works, to start with. With Shippensburg this next weekend and the Eastern Regional 2-day match the next and then our 600yd mid-range match, won't get much time to develop a new load for a new rifle. Winter and next season.
  

Glenn - 2x CPA 44 1/2 w/22LR (Shilen ratchet-rifled & Bartlein 5R rifled), 38-40RH & 38-55WCF (Bartlein 5R rifled) & 40-65WCF (GrnMtn 'X') barrels
Back to top
GTalk  
IP Logged
 
ClaMar
Full Member
***
Offline



Posts: 141
Location: Texas
Joined: Jul 23rd, 2013
Re: 40-65 for the Shiloh Sharps Model 1874 ...
Reply #13 - Sep 14th, 2013 at 11:04am
Print Post  
SSShooter,

Yeah, I shot it more last evening and it is getting more routine.  I'm using the Az Sharpshooters rod and arsenal patches, and also the 1:20 mixture.  (I notice that my .40-70 takes 2 patches between shots, which the .40-65 seems to work fine with 1.)

If your Money bullet is like mine, the first groove is bore diameter.  It sets out quite a bit further than a normal bullet.  With mine, I open the RCBS micrometer on the measure by 0.100 (approximately 10 grains) to get the same compression, and I expect I'm getting ~100 fps more velocity than the other bullet.

Clarence
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
gunlaker
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline



Posts: 2261
Location: lower mainland, B.C.
Joined: Dec 13th, 2010
Re: 40-65 for the Shiloh Sharps Model 1874 ...
Reply #14 - Sep 14th, 2013 at 11:13am
Print Post  
Clarence,  one thing I've found is that you can save a pile of time by separating your patches before a relay.  ( Keep the lid on the patches between relays to prevent them from drying out in the hot sun. ) I noticed that often I'd waste a lot of time separating patches from each other.  Now my routine is faster than blow tubing.

Chris.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2 
Send TopicPrint