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yamoon
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Primers
Sep 14th, 2013 at 6:25pm
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What are your thoughts on using large pistol primers in the 8.15x46 & 32-40. I shoot IMR 4227 as I bought an 8lb tin about 20 yrs ago. I have always used Large pistol primers, again I bought 5000 several years ago. I shoot alone as I don't know any SS shooters in this area so my only source of info is this forum. I am getting ready to try out a new rifle that has been rechambered to 32 win spcl, & I am debating large Rifle or large pistol primers. 
Thanks Mike
  
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Elijah
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Re: Primers
Reply #1 - Sep 14th, 2013 at 6:38pm
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I can only regurgitate what I read Steve Garbe said about them, especially in smaller calibers like 32-40 and 38-55. He indicated they were more accurate than using Large Rifle primers.

One drawback is the head spacing. The LP primers will sink in further in the primer pocket and cause indention in the breech if it's soft enough. I don't know how hard it would have to be to eliminate that and perhaps most American manufacturers harden it enough so there's little chance of damage. Another possibility is to put maybe a small 3/8x3/8 inch piece of card stock like 90# under the shell holder and as you seat the primer it cuts through the card in effect being more flush with the top of the rim and eliminating a problem.
  
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tenx
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Re: Primers
Reply #2 - Sep 14th, 2013 at 6:45pm
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This is probably going to be a little different for most of you but I lite off 14.3 grs. of 4100 with a Winchester LR Mag. Primer. Shot a 249, 250 and a 248 today at our match. Thanks John Louis.  ( the man you love to love or hate Smiley 

Pete
  
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Jeff_Schultz
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Re: Primers
Reply #3 - Sep 14th, 2013 at 8:14pm
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What is different? What match would that be?
« Last Edit: Sep 14th, 2013 at 8:20pm by Jeff_Schultz »  

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JLouis
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Re: Primers
Reply #4 - Sep 14th, 2013 at 8:30pm
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Pete congratulations on some very fine shooting my friend and I am extremely excited about your performance. It also makes me feel very good knowing that I could have been of some assistance to help get you there. 

Congratulations Again
JLouis

  

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SSShooter
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Re: Primers
Reply #5 - Sep 14th, 2013 at 9:15pm
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tenx wrote on Sep 14th, 2013 at 6:45pm:
This is probably going to be a little different for most of you but I lite off 14.3 grs. of 4100 with a Winchester LR Mag. Primer. Shot a 249, 250 and a 248 today at our match. 
Pete

Nice shooting. 
What cartridge and bullet?
  

Glenn - 2x CPA 44 1/2 w/22LR (Shilen ratchet-rifled & Bartlein 5R rifled), 38-40RH & 38-55WCF (Bartlein 5R rifled) & 40-65WCF (GrnMtn 'X') barrels
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40_Rod
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Re: Primers
Reply #6 - Sep 15th, 2013 at 8:27am
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I have always shot large rifle BR primers in my 32-40 and small rifle BR primers in my smaller cases. 
Years ago when the world and I were young I was shooting at Etna Green. All of my targets showed 2 groups my best load had the 2 groups very close together. I was complaining about it and a fellow shooter, Gary Hamilton, asked what I was shooting CPA I replied. Gary asked me to Bring in the gun He showed me that Stevens and CPA have an adjustment for the mainspring. Gary put about a quarter turn on the adjustment screw making the spring stiffer. I went back and shot the rifle 1 group! 
  I have remembered that lesson all these years. When I have problems like this I either put in a new spring or make the adjustment. This experience makes me believe that the myth that pistol primers that are softer are more accurate. The real reason is your mainspring isn’t strong enough to reliably light rifle primers.

40 Rod 
  
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QuestionableMaynard8130
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Re: Primers
Reply #7 - Sep 15th, 2013 at 8:52am
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As I understand it, standard pistol primers are a mite shorter, appear to carry a little less priming compound, and are made with either a softer or thinner metal cup than rifle primers. (I'm not exactly sure what makes the diff between a standard and a mag. primer)
  In theory in a low pressure rifle cartridge they will give a less explosive ignition that may ignite the main charge more reliably.
However there are a whole bunch of variables that may or may not make it work to your advantage.

Some powders simply seem to require a hotter or more powerful "spark" to get a consistent shot to shot burn/pressure rate. The relative case shape and volume and the charge volume may also make a difference.
   Some rifles may have mechanical issues that prevent pistol primers from working well---the firing pin strike may cause problems due to the shorter primer being deep or erratically seated in a deeper pocket.  In addition a older rifle may have a larger diameter firing pin either due to wear or perhaps for older black powder cartridge primers.  This can allow the "softer" pistol primers to flow back into the breechface firing pin hole, even with very moderate pressures. 
An old German/swiss martini built for a BN / BP cartridge equivalent of the 38-55 I am trying to resuscitate is currently at Johnson's so SteveD can re-do the blockface/firing pin.  Even with low BP pressure loads, primers would flow back enough to almost lock up the action.  I tried both rifle and pistol with the same load and pistol primers were significantly worse.
     Deep seated short pistol primers [i]may[/i] have room to "back out" and slam into the breech face and create wear and damage  (especially in older rifles with worn or unhardened block faces) --- IF pressure is high, and/or primer pockets are worn and enlarged by repeated use and scraping out.

If I am in error or am missing other relevant points I'd be happy to be corrected.

« Last Edit: Sep 15th, 2013 at 9:00am by QuestionableMaynard8130 »  

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tenx
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Re: Primers
Reply #8 - Sep 15th, 2013 at 8:53am
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Jeff,

The difference is the use of magnum primers. It is almost written in stone that tho shall use Rem. 2 1/2 primers, or similar in a .32/40. The match is a SS match our club (Pine Ridge Rifle Club) puts on twice a month from May to Oct.

SSShooter,

The cartridge is a .32/40 on a CPA action and Krieger barrel. The bullet is a copy of a Barnett that weighs 202 grs. After casting it is lubed with Emmett's and then run into a bump die to make sure everything is square.

John,

Altho I didn't follow ALL your instructions I did with most of them and only altered those ideas that didn't seem to work in my gun.
  
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frnkeore
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Re: Primers
Reply #9 - Sep 16th, 2013 at 2:29am
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To answer the OP's question regarding 4227. I've used a lot of 4227 and I use pistol primers with it. both F150 and Wolf. I would shoot one of those against Rem 2 1/2 before I would commit to the 2 1/2's for matches, as I haven't tried them. 

That said, I've shot with many guys that use rifle primers with 4227 and they also did well. From what I've seen, 4227 seems to like most any primer.

Also, keep in mind that 4227 holds the ASSRA 100 yard group record shot with a 32/40.

Frank
  

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Re: Primers
Reply #10 - Sep 17th, 2013 at 1:48am
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    Most of the small ball powder makers recommend a magnum primer.        ...MIKE...
  
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QuestionableMaynard8130
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Re: Primers
Reply #11 - Sep 17th, 2013 at 6:31am
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  Other than size and height, it'd be interesting to know exactly what the diff is between pistol and rifle primers and their mag versions.,  cup hardness??  primer compound??  amount of compound??

Maybe I'm imagining things but I seem to recall an article or a post that showed pics of the flash from different kinds of primers against a graph board background.
  

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Mike65
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Re: Primers
Reply #12 - Sep 17th, 2013 at 9:05am
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DW,
I remember the pictures of the firing primers that you are talking about but can't find it either.
Here is a link to another site where the guy is giving a bunch of data.  Just skimmed it quickly but it looks as though the cup material thickness is what makes it "harder".
Mike
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Re: Primers
Reply #13 - Sep 17th, 2013 at 9:19am
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Pretty sure i've seen the comparison of primmer Brisnance I think they call it on the Shiloh Forum.

Terry
  

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Old-Win
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Re: Primers
Reply #14 - Sep 17th, 2013 at 10:05am
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Here's a chart developed by Jim  Cornaggiae (sp.) from Cabinetree Products.
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I would think that one with a low standard deviation would be as important as brisance. 
There was an article in the American Rifleman some years ago about what designates a match primer?  IIRC, the priming compound is still wiped on by hand and some people just had a better touch for filling the cups uniformly.  Those that had the "touch" were selected to make the match primers.

Here's another link:
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« Last Edit: Sep 17th, 2013 at 10:27am by Old-Win »  
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